Horses In My Dreams

[inmyhead]

Does anyone else LOVE this song?
It`s beautiful.

I think all of "Stories From The City, Stories From The Sea" is just "Polly-licious" (lol :)) but this song touches me more for some reason.

Any thoughts? ;)

[Finney]

Yes indeed.
This song..was the leftovers i didn't want..
then driving to work in the weee morning, freezing me ass off, trying to step on the brakes that are frozen (anyone else have this problem w/cars)...
Horses comes on...
I usually would end up ff, just to listen to 'we float'...but..
I didn't.

It is one of those songs that just sounds right. Her voice gets so unbelievably beautiful and soothing towards the end..and i love the little music that goes with it..just like a nice guitar feeling.

I'm right with you...
Great song...
So much fun to listen to polly and tori in the car..not so much fun to get caught singing along..
haha

j/joking.

[LcKyNmBeR13]

yeah! definately fantasmiriffic song! i lovers it to death!

[PrinceFamiliar]

This is one of my favorites on Stories... It's a beautiful, resonant song.

Chris

[Wicked Tongue]

I totally agree with all of you guys...."Horses" is one of the ones that grew on me the more i listened to it. When she hits "I have pulled myself clear" I feel like everything is gonna be...like...just okay you know? Definitely one of the songs she wrote while in England...you can almost hear the isolation and stillness of the English countryside.

Wicked Tongue.

[Tethered2it]

I haven't quite fully-embraced this song yet..we've danced, but only formally thus far. It has been one of the least played by me-not being as accessible as most of the others on "Stories...."

yet..yet..there IS something about it. maybe the vocal. it has this, I don't know, stuffed-up or slight nasal quality to it...I can't exactly put my finger on it.

Gentle and intimate too.


I do recall reading somewhere that PJ feels very close to this song. That it has special/personal meaning for her. Like the song is more specificly about her.


Au Revoir....

[toriMODE]

This couldn't have been a more appropriate thread for tonight.....just tonight driving home from work I was listening to Stories..and the last song....that I got to was Horses In My Dreams..and I absolutely fell apart...tears just drizzling down my face.....nose all wet.....I was a mess "this mess we're in"..geez...this songs just makes me boo hoo..everytime I listen to it....I love Horses In My Dreams..when I saw her last month in Atlanta and she performed this song..I was looking around...it was one of those songs..that just hits you hard...and makes you bawl.....I love it...I love this whole fuckin album.....it amazes me.

*sniff sniff*
toriMODE/ Ron :0)

[PeleChick]

God, I love this song. It's one of those songs that as soon as you hear it you are arrested by it and it demands your full attention until it's over.

I love songs like that. They make life more bearable.

np: Maybe Someday - The Cure

[Antigone]

It's gorgeous.

My boyfriend and I both think it's about heroin. Does anyone else see that? (He pointed it out to me and now it seems really obvious. The horses, tracks, etc.)

Antigone

[hubcap]

Could very well be. Oblique, like most of her lyrics (love 'em, love her). Horse is old slang for heroin. Could be about "pulling clear" of addiction. Don't think she's speaking from personal experience, though; in the interview she did with Jane magazine, Polly says of drugs and alcohol that she "didn't choose those methods of [self-]destruction, but there were others."

"Horses" also helps to support the Patti Smith comparisons the album has received (which PJ has denied). Love the way "Stories" ends, with two soft songs. "This Wicked Tongue" is awesome, but I like the conclusion sans bonus track...

Glad to have been prompted to put "Stories" on again, it's been a couple of weeks. Don't think my Polly passion has abated, though. I'm tempted to start another thread called "PJ in my dreams"; I've had three vivid, long dreams with Polly in them in the last week. Time to go to bed!

[Finney]

How odd..
i dreamt about pj last week too.
But alas I forget them now.
:)
hate when that happens.

[veganboy]

Miss Harvey has actually not denied the comparisons to Patti Smith, but rather she denies that she listens to Miss Smith's music and finds inspiration in it. Any similarity in their style could be explained by the influences they share (most notably, the music of Bob Dylan, the Rolling Stones, and Jimi Hendrix).

<I>Harvey is still being compared to Smith (the ''Patti Smith syndrome,'' Harvey jokingly calls it) but adds candidly that Smith "is not somebody I would call an inspiration to me." So who is? She cites Bob Dylan and Neil Young for their adventurous spirits - and, especially in Dylan's case, for his lyrics.

"I guess we do have a passion about the way we deliver and the nature of the things we're singing about. They're quite strong subjects sung in a strong way, so I can see comparisons there. And obviously Patti has lived in New York, so there's this New York thing now too. But she wasn't someone I was trying to emulate in any way on this record."</I>

[HandsomeDevil]

Antigone -

I also thought it was about heroin..especially considering the other drug references on the album: "my middle name was excess" "speak to me of heroin and speed" "heading to blackout" There are a few more I think...

[Antigone]

Yeah, I thought it also made sense in the context of living in NYC. I also don't think it's from personal experience, but who knows. It's an eerie, dreamy song. I remember being almost in tears when she did it in Boston.

:)
Antigone

[veganboy]

Drugs, genocide, and suicide are examples of why the city is backwards. The song does not relate to personal experiences. "My middle name was excess" could refer to anything in excess, not likely drugs. You really shouldn't read into the lyrics that much.
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[hubcap]

Originally posted by veganboy
Miss Harvey has actually not denied the comparisons to Patti Smith, but rather she denies that she listens to Miss Smith's music and finds inspiration in it.

Agreed...; I munged my sentence! I initially had the word "influence" somewhere in there instead of "comparison" and ...

Thanks for the interview quote, Veganboy. Where's that from?

"Horses" is a beautiful song, regardless of whether it reminds me or anybody else of Patti Smith. It still indelibly bears the signature of Polly Jean Harvey (kinda like Antigone's Boston setlist!).

A shame that you've forgotten your PJ dreams, Finney. Hope you still got the warm fuzzies from 'em at least!

[Finney]

Actually....
I remembered the one dream (of course my brain was working overtime trying to remember)..and I did not get the warm fuzzies, but the dread of realizing it was all a dream..
you see,
I was playing baseball outside in my yard (don't know why the fuck but anywhoo)..this flyer was sticking on a pole..i ripped it down..
Said pj harvey..then had a list of all these concerts..
I scroll down and read that she is coming to state college (pa)..
I'm flipping out...
Also the fact that I got a flyer with her pic on it. It was a small venue...


lol..
then i woke up...
all bummed.
:)
My brain is warped.

Owwwwww,
and somebody tell me more about this comparison between horses and heroin (which is a sad drug :(

[veganboy]

hubcap...

http://www.pjharvey.net/reviews/6nov00.html

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/343/living/PJ_Harvey_s_soft_side+.shtml

[HandsomeDevil]

Veganboy -
You have no more clue what her lyrics actually mean than I do.

[veganboy]

HandsomeDevil,

I know that the song is not about heroin because of the interview hubcap mentioned. I think it would be most respectful to Miss Harvey's integrity to drop the subject.

From what I gather from interviews, the song is about recovering from a "breakdown" she experienced in the mid-90's. Beyond that, I personally find the lyrics to best appreciated for their emotive qualities than to read into them anything that may or may not be true. To me, it takes away from the song.

[Antigone]

Originally posted by veganboy
I know that the song is not about heroin because of the interview hubcap mentioned. I think it would be most respectful to Miss Harvey's integrity to drop the subject.


I disagree on all counts.

You don't *know* that it isn't about Heroin. Only Polly Jean Harvey knows her intentions and inspiration for the song. All hubcap said was:

"Don't think she's speaking from personal experience, though; in the interview she did with Jane magazine, Polly says of drugs and alcohol that she "didn't choose those methods of [self-]destruction, but there were others." "

One can write a song without it being from personal experience, he didn't say it WASN'T about the subject, just that she wasn't writing about something that she experienced.

And it isn't disrespectful. We're not saying "Oh, Polly Jean Harvey is a junkie and a trashy whore because she wrote a song" just like I wouldn't say Tori Amos is a murderer because she wrote Past the Mission. (Tori has clear heroin references in her songs too - Mother Mary, China White, Brown may be sweeter, from Professional Widow - but I don't think she has EVER touched it.)

"Rode a horse around the world
Along the tracks of a train"

I can see that as references to track marks and to heroin, which is known in slang as "horse". And then "Set myself free again, I have pulled myself clear" could be a reference to getting off the drug.

I am not even saying this is meant literally and that the song is *about* heroin. I'm saying it could have been PJ's metaphor - that her feelings at the time were similar to those of a person using heroin and getting off it. It's all symbolic and metaphorical. But I see it as not being unintentional either. Part of the album was written in NYC - I watched a junkie spit and writhe and then buy falafel once while visiting NYC. I could easily write a poem about that experience, and I could say "I spat and I twisted and I bought falafel" and it wouldn't be *me*. I could make that poem be about a day I left a lover, using heroin as my main jumping off point. You see what I'm saying?

does any of that make sense? I just think it takes integrity to write a powerful song like this one. It touches me deeply, whatever it is about.
Antigone

[veganboy]

Antigone, I was mainly talking about "We Float," not "Horses In My Dreams." HandsomeDevil had suggested that it and "The Whores Hustle And The Hustlers Whore" made references to a personal heroin addiction.

I suppose it is within the realm of possibility that "Horses In My Dreams" was written generally about heroin addiction, and if you'd like to think so you certainly have the right. I think it is best to not read into a song to that extent.

I'm a bit bothered by this whole thread because.. this is a PJ Harvey forum, not a "gossip about the stars" forum. I think many people do not realize the stresses of being in the public eye, and I think it is important to give celebrities the respect of believing them when they say they have or have not done something. Especially considering the fact that we appreciate the honesty with which Polly Harvey's music is presented, I think most people here should agree that it is not best to start gossip about her on the forum.

Nevertheless, I mean not to offend or make accusations.

[Finney]

Poetry, music is for everyone..or else she wouldn't put it out.
There is nothing wrong with giving your own interpretation.
I think it is pretty damn interesting to think about a song like that (horses)....My thoughts and ideas i would never in a million years think of heroin.
So i'm kind of intrigued by this idea.



There are so many creative people on this board..who come up with some pretty cool ideas. Not like I would accept them as the answer to the puzzle, but why not tune in.

[hubcap]

First, a plea. Please no one take any of the following personally. Absolutely no ill will or disrespect to anyone is intended, despite any dramatics I might indulge in or bad taste I might display. On the contrary, I love you all for the great conversation.

So, here goes:

Holy shit! Well-fucking-said, Antigone. You a lit major?! :) Damn good close-reading of all the words under discussion.

I think I see Veganboy's point, but also must disagree with it. I'm thinking about something from my personal experience. I once submitted a gig review where I mentioned that the performer said to the crowd, "I guess you're all tripping here, I've heard that drugs are condoned here." Before it was "published," I self-censored myself and retracted the sentence or two that mentioned drugs. My reasoning was that I didn't want to attract the attention of the drug czars to either the performer or the venue (some vanity, eh?). I'm still not sure that I did the right thing, allowing some sort of societal superego to censor me.

But this is a different situation even from that; we're discussing the lyrics to a song--words, not actions. It could all be metaphor for something else. And if it's not metaphor, it still doesn't have to be literal. Antigone's poem analogy is perfect, where the author through imagination assumes another's character. PJ could have written "Horses In My Dreams" after seeing "Trainspotting." Does anyone think that "Legs" implicates PJ as a murderer?

It's this expression of the power of imagination that I most respect in an artist. Polly has it in spadefuls; I don't care if she's a junkie or murderer AS FAR AS HER ART is concerned!

I also think, as a general rule of thumb, that the more interpretations that a work of art is open to, the better a work of art it is. (What Finney said!)

But even if we were talking about Polly Jean Harvey herself using heroin (and no one is), so what? What I mean is that such things are said about artists by persons close to them and by the artists themselves. The Beatles, Kurt Cobain, Jimmy Chamberlain, Spacemen 3, et cetera forever. Not that I have heard any credible rumormongering with regard to PJ. Just the opposite, in fact (the Jane article). Our very-far-removed speculations and hypotheticallegations can't be VALIDLY used to damage an artist's integrity. And anyway, the range of accepted (if not "acceptable") behavior granted to artists is, rightly or wrongly, wider than that granted to the general public. This is not meant to excuse "gossip," just to say that if we were "gossiping," it would be obvious that that's all it is. With the exception of outright slander, I don't feel an obligation to censor myself to prevent the INVALID use of what I have written.

Just my strong-but-not-rigid opinion; reasonable people can differ. I do wish there were a falafel joint in this town though. Thanks again for the stimulation.

P.S. I think "horse" as slang for "heroin" is just because they both begin with "h," nothing more than that.

P.P.S. Sorry if this is flogging a dead horse!

[veganboy]

Originally posted by hubcap


But even if we were talking about Polly Jean Harvey herself using heroin (and no one is), so what? What I mean is that such things are said about artists by persons close to them and by the artists themselves. The Beatles, Kurt Cobain, Jimmy Chamberlain, Spacemen 3, et cetera forever.

I have only said that I think that to assume that Polly Harvey lied because of a few lines in her songs that could be interpreted that way is disrespectful to her integrity. The use of heroin in itself is not an issue to me; celebrities' problems are really none of my business. I think that HandsomeDevil implied that several lines in her songs were references to a personal drug problem. I should have kept all this in e-mail, because for the most part it is between him and me and perhaps is not quite appropriate here.

[LcKyNmBeR13]

Originally posted by HandsomeDevil
You have no more clue what her lyrics actually mean than I do.

RIGHT ON!

i tried not to get involved, but fuck it...this IS a forum...and talking about the possible meanings of lyrics should not be transformed into a debate and people should not be so easily offended. cool it guys. just listen to the music and take it into your own how YOU see it. that's all that matters. i don't think you should even TRY and make someone else believe the same song interpretations as you do. that's completely crazy. talking about lyrics with other people should just be a way to see others views and to see things that you haven't seen in something before. so just have fun with it. i'm sure polly didn't write these lyrics to start a debate...but hey, what do i know? maybe she did! ;)

thankyouverymuch.

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surrender

[Antigone]

Originally posted by hubcap
Holy shit! Well-fucking-said, Antigone. You a lit major?! :) Damn good close-reading of all the words under discussion.


Thank you. Yes, I was. :)

I see what you're saying veganboy, and I am sorry that I took some of what you said out of context. That wasn't my intent. :)

Antigone

[PlayboyMommy]

I also like this song, and the funny thing is that I would always skip it until today. The beginning doesn't intrigue me too much, but I actually listened to it and it touched me. I prefer "You Said Something" the most though.