reasons to be childfree

[Fox in Socks]

so i was at the store the other day and it really hit home that i am too impatient for kids. i got out of my car, ran into CVS and back out in the time that it took the woman who had pulled in beside me to get out her stroller, unlatch her kids from their carseats and strap them in to the stroller, all for a trip to the pharmacy. that i couldnt handle. just the pain in the assness of all that. how selfish and lazy am i!?!![post85]

anyway, tell me things you see that make you realize parenting may not be so much for you.....

[Kari]

I watched 10 minutes of SuperNanny last night, and this woman had 7 kids and her husband was going to Iraq.

Not good.

[Fox in Socks]

I watched 10 minutes of SuperNanny last night, and this woman had 7 kids and her husband was going to Iraq.

Not good.i love supernanny. shes pretty hot too. um yeah THAT for sure made my ovaries turn to raisins.

[Kari]

;l;l

I was like "Um, why would you have three kids in the past three years when your husband is in the National Guard???" Like, they HAD to know he was going.

[Sarah.]

The fact that I will never have to endure nativity plays or school concerts where 30 tuneless 6 year olds sing Disney songs is enough to make me feel smug about never being a parent.

EDIT: 7 kids!!! What's wrong with this family? What if he were to be injured or killed in Iraq?

[Fox in Socks]

EDIT: 7 kids!!! What's wrong with this family? What if he were to be injured or killed in Iraq?thats EXACTLY what i was thinking. so so crazy.

[Bea]

I knew I couldn't have children when I saw the movie Beaches. I was like, OMG, I am the parenting equivalent of CC Bloom!

I totally put that in the wrong thread. I need coffee.

Anyway...my main reason for staying childfree is a selfish one. I want the free time and disposable income. I don't care if I've no one to take care of me when I'm 70. If I've had a kickass, childfree life up until that point, I probably won't care.

[Boomer #8]

'Freedom'. And also, I want to be selfish. I've had my 18 years thinking of others, and for at least another 18 years or so, I'm going to be selfish. Commitment free. SELFISH! WOOHOO!

[Kari]

Utah- I left you a dot that was supposed to say "I [post28] Beaches". However, it came out "I [post28" ;l;l

[hollerskates]

yessss. i have to take one of the little girls i keep to ballet every thursday. her 2 year old sister has to come along too. so, i've got to remember 2 kids, ballet shoes, tap shoes, jazz shoes, clothes to change into, water bottles/snacks for both kids(mom's rule not mine), diapers, wipes, etc. not to mention my bag. gotta transfer both carseats to my car. that is a mother fucking pain in the ass!! i've lost so many fingernails that way. gotta remember to get all that shit together and in the car with the girls and their carseats before i turn on the security alarm. tried to do it as we were leaving once...was not pretty. noisy girls, dropping things, deciding they want to change shoes, etc. all that for 30 minutes of ballet. I DON'T WANT CHILDREN!!!!

[Alex]

Taking care of my cats is enough parenting. "THAT'S ENOUGH FIGHTING, YOU TWO!" "EAT YOUR DINNER!" "DADDY NEEDS SLEEP!"

I like cursing, talking about dildos and butt sex with whomever and whenever I want. Kids make that difficult.

[Thom.]

I feel this is appropriate as a reason why.

http://somethingpositive.net/arch/caughtagain.gif

[Kari]

;l;l;l fdjaksjdklsfjd daojfiowjeklajfdklj

Oh, man, that is the best cartoon EVER.

[Fox in Socks]

i SO concur. *plans next bakery trip*

[TheTimm]

anyway, tell me things you see that make you realize parenting may not be so much for you.....Children.

[frangipanigrrl]

I have lots of damn good reasons. A few are:

- I need sleep. A lot of sleep. 8 hours nighly is not even enough. Zzzzzzzzz

- I, like you, have little patience. Definitely not enough for kids.

- I have a dog and I can leave him alone for like 5 hours at a moment's notice. No go for kids.

-I cannot deal with pain--even a little pain. I cannot deal with discomfort even. Pregnancy and I would not be a good fit.

- I LOVE LOVE LOVE freedom. Trips, dinners, spontaneous plans at 10 on a Friday.

- I need tons of ME time. My hubby is okay with this...but kids likely wouldn't be. I like peace and quiet in my house so I can totally relax and do what I want. If someone interrupts this I get a migraine.

[Bea]

Utah- I left you a dot that was supposed to say "I [post28] Beaches". However, it came out "I [post28" ;l;l

;l that left me scratching my head! ;k


I would just like to add this, possibly most important, reason to stay childfree:

Orgies.
[post100]

[Alex]

Orgies.
[post100]

wanna come to Brooklyn?

[Bea]

lol....it's on my to-do list. ;)

[Alex]

^all of brooklyn? you're ambitious!

[Bea]

LOL...That reminds me of Jane Krakowski from classic Ally McBeal: "Ally, if I take 20 men home from a bar, am I obligated to sleep with all of them?" ;)

[sara_g]

I simply do not like children. Also, I have no patience with them. When my girlfriend's niece and nephew start screaming, i just want to scream back "stop being so fucking irrational and shut the fuck up!".
And in all honestly, I'm fucking selfish. I don't want to have to put my life on hold to raise a creature. I want to be able to travel and have nice things and have disposable income.
My cat is as close to grandkids my parents will ever get from me.

[jeth]

I can't watch shows like Supernanny. Even the commercials make my skin crawl. As soon as I hear a kid screeching/screaming/wailing I can't find the remote fast enough.

I like my peace and quiet, you know?

[candy apple red]

Because kids are time consuming, expensive, loud, messy, and demanding. Because, as someone else mentioned, they're irrational. Because I hate having to pretend to be interested in recitals, multiplication tables, and crappy art projects. Because I treasure my freedom. Because I have too much to do. Because I like my marriage the way it is.

And because I have four cats who are cuter and more interesting than any child I've ever met.

[Rinky vs.4.0]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/oremia/baby_blues.gif


Actually? I just don't want them. I don't desire them. I never have. It's as simple as that. It's not as if I consciously sat down with a pencil and paper and made a for and against chart one day and came out with a list in favour of 'no kids'. I could tell you a bunch of rationalisations about why I don't want them, but the simple truth is I just don't. Yet people ofte seem to want to know WHY I don't want kids, as if there must be a terrible secret or grand reason behind it. There isn't. I don't want them in the way that some people just DO want them. Yet the people who DO 'just want them' rarely get interrogated the way I do about it.

[jenniferblaufrau]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/oremia/baby_blues.gif
The girl in the tub reminds me of myself in Germany. Ultimate freedom and delight. [post22]

For me, the biggest reason not to have kids is: why would I want to clothe, nurture, shelter, educate, provide for, and encourage to do great things someone else at my own expense? People are so proud of their kids' accomplishments -- what about their own?

[on the vine]

My fiance & I are choosing not to have children because of many reason, the main being we are selfish. We want our time to be spent on ourselves and spent with each other. I want to do things & go places with him and enjoy it.
We also do not have the money. If I had extra money, I'd want to spend it on me because I worked damn hard for it.
Plus I just don't think I'd be a good parent. I don't have patients to put up with kids. And how do I know I would be able to raise them to be good people? How do I know that my kid wouldn't be the next Columbine?
I want to work on me and my life and enjoy it and not feel guilty about it.

[Alex]

why is it considered selfish to live your life the way you see fit?

it's a life choice--if i want extra money to travel/produce my plays/learn yoga/whatever instead of having a kid, how is that selfish? I'm just making a different choice.

[jenniferblaufrau]

Besides, I think selfishness is underrated. I think a lot of people who want to "help people" just don't know what the hell to do with themselves.

[TheTimm]

As far as "selfish" goes, I absolutely think people who choose not to have kids choose it for selfish reasons. And I think people who choose TO have kids do it for selfish reasons. I think almost everything anyone does is for selfish reasons. And I don't think there's a damned thing wrong with that.

[on the vine]

oh i've been told my decision is selfish and that i won't be complete as a woman without a baby. just makes me not want one more.

[jenniferblaufrau]

As far as "selfish" goes, I absolutely think people who choose not to have kids choose it for selfish reasons. And I think people who choose TO have kids do it for selfish reasons. I think almost everything anyone does is for selfish reasons. And I don't think there's a damned thing wrong with that.
I agree completely, except I believe that EVERYTHING anyone does is for selfish reasons.

As Harry Browne the Libertarian says, take away a martyr's cause and just watch how ornery he gets.

[Rinky vs.4.0]

I love to play with people when they bring up the 'complete' as a woman argument. Does it mean I grow an extra vagina upon producing offspring? Am I not female, despite having the old double X chromosome and a complete set of female genitalia etc, until I push out a sprog? Should there be a box on application forms for 'incomplete female' seeing as how apparently I'm in a seperate category from childed women? Is a man only 'half a man' until he's knocked up his wife or a least, a few random neighbourhood tarts? When you actually challenge people on the bullshit they spout on this topic, you tend to find they have no real idea what they're saying themselves, they're just usually repeating handed-down aphorisms they haven't had the wit to challenge themselves over the years.

Oh, and I agree with Timm about the selfishness thing. Someone who doesn't have kids because they do not want kids is no more selfish or reprehensible than someone who has kids because they want them.

[toriwannabe]

Jen, you quoted Harry Browne and all I can think of Joey from Friends! There was an episode where he argued that absolutely nothing is done without YOU getting something out of it. Even helping someone else makes YOU feel good, so that's kinda selfish.

[on the vine]

^ The PBS episode!

[candy apple red]

People are so proud of their kids' accomplishments -- what about their own?

I very much agree. I once asked my mother what her greatest accomplishment was, and she said it was me. I thought that was incredibly sad. Sweet, yes. But sad.

[jenniferblaufrau]

Agreed. It's like the parent is nothing more than a host organism.

[PotatoFace]

I very much agree. I once asked my mother what her greatest accomplishment was, and she said it was me. I thought that was incredibly sad. Sweet, yes. But sad.


See, I dont think it is sad. I would imagine that she is saying that because she is really proud that she raised a decent human being. It's hard to raise a kid to be well adjusted, and I do think it is a great accomplishment to be able to raise someone who is well adjusted, kind, decent, and a good productive citizen.

I do understand why you would see it as sad. And if you did have children I think you would understand it a bit better. I'm not saying this in a snarky way. But same as I would never really understand where you are coming from being childless. But your child is a direct representation of who you are. So I would imagine that she is just soo insanely proud of you for who you are, and that making her extremely proud of herself that she helped raise you.

I would say that my daughter is my greatest accomplishment to me. But she isnt my only accomplishment. I know it probably sounds weird to you, but I am very proud of the things I have done with her.

But I can understand the reason to be childfree. Its just not for anyone. I doubt most of your hate children, but I agree with you in hating misbehaved and horrid parents. They should be tossed in an oven.

[TheTimm]

But your child is a direct representation of who you are.
Horseshit. My parents shouldn't have to shoulder the blame for how my brother turned out. Their other two children ended up just fine, and we were all "raised" the same. He loser-fied himself. They're not any more to blame that he sucks, than they are to credit that I rock. Yes, they had something to do with it, but if we're each a "direct representation" of them they must be split-personality schizo-freaks, because my brother and I could not be more different.

[Master Shaman]

And if you did have children I think you would understand it a bit better.

Bingo!

[Fox in Socks]

/off topic, whats up with all the dots dan? going to the dark side? /end hijack.

[PotatoFace]

Horseshit. My parents shouldn't have to shoulder the blame for how my brother turned out. Their other two children ended up just fine, and we were all "raised" the same. He loser-fied himself. They're not any more to blame that he sucks, than they are to credit that I rock. Yes, they had something to do with it, but if we're each a "direct representation" of them they must be split-personality schizo-freaks, because my brother and I could not be more different.

But there are always exceptions to the rules, like anything. But the way you raise children does represent you in a way. You teach them everything, now whether or not they come out the way you intended is a whole different issue. I mean, think of it this way if you saw a women in the mall with three screaming children, running through the store dragging clothes off the rack and screaming what do most of the people think? "Oh my God, I wish that mother would take control of her kids. She must be a horrid mother!" Now if its true is up to debate, but society as a whole judges the parent by the end result of the child. Do I personally think that is true, no. But its how it goes.

And Master Shaman, if you read the sentence after what you quoted you would know I dont mean it in a condisending way. But it is true, people without children don't understand the situation to the fullest extent. Just as I might know everything about stitching a wound up, but if I've never done it, I don't fully grasp the whole proceedure. But I'm not saying it as an I'm better than you, you don't understand me, YOU DONT UNDERSTAND MY PLIGHT!!

[Kari]

I very much agree. I once asked my mother what her greatest accomplishment was, and she said it was me. I thought that was incredibly sad. Sweet, yes. But sad.

Yeah. My mom goes "You're the best thing I've ever done in my life", and I'm like "REALLY???". I mean, Jesus Christ. Sorry about that. ;l;l;l

[Rinky vs.4.0]

I just asked my mother and she said, "Not killing your father or you two." (meaning me and my sister)

Now that's what I call HONESTY. And you know, a sense of humour, because we don't have sincere, Oprah conversations that end in tears and hugging in our house.

And the door to the special hell is open and ready to receive vistors, people. Just sayin'.

[PotatoFace]

I just asked my mother and she said, "Not killing your father or you two." (meaning me and my sister)

Now that's what I call HONESTY. And you know, a sense of humour, because we don't have sincere, Oprah conversations that end in tears and hugging in our house.

And the door to the special hell is open and ready to receive vistors, people. Just sayin'.


When people ask me, I usually say "Well she has hasnt ended up in the oven or on fire, so Id say that."

[iciclespark]

My mother would probably say I'm her greatest accomplishment, but a) I think she's accomplished many great things b) I think considering her sometimes abusive parenting style in my youth, that my fabulousness should be credited more to my grandparents c) My mother could have done so much more with herself, and instead, she dropped out of high school because they wouldn't skip her a grade, married her boyfriend and got knocked up at 18. Had she continued school, I know she would have gone to college, had a strong career, been a happier person when she did decide to have me and also, she would not have stayed in her marriage to my dad out of feeling dependent for as long as she did.

I think a parent can feel that raising a great child is one of their many solid accomplishments, particularly if they faced a lot of adversity, but if their entire feeling of self-worth is derived from their child-rearing skills, it is sad and not balanced. That is what my mother has lacked for most of her life - balance. She's recently started up a business and hearing her speak, she's much more confident and sure now. And I am proud of her for giving it a go in her early 40's. She believed in herself enough to not settle for being a stay-at-home mom (my sister is 12) or taking a Joe Anybody job due to her lack of education.

As for reasons to be childfree, I have so many, from the biological to social to emotional to simple lack of desire. And I too wonder why we must justify this to others around us. I think wanting to bring another life into a crowded planet, something requiring extensive commitments both monetary and otherwise, should be justified. Having a child affects someone other than yourself; being childfree does not. Which choice carries a higher cost? The human race will continue to populate without me.

[double_psyche]

;l;l

I was like "Um, why would you have three kids in the past three years when your husband is in the National Guard???" Like, they HAD to know he was going.

OK, late to the party, but just wanted to say: No, just because he's in the Guards, that doesn't mean the KNEW he was going. And they sure as hell wouldn't have known three-plus years in advance. My husband found out last month he will be going in the fall; I doubt this other family had much more warning.

[Nancy]

I don't think it's selfish to want to be in charge of my own life before any other. It's not like I don't spend a great deal of time caring for my family members.

There is one advantage to being childfree that was recently pointed out to me by my husband. He was looking at some photographs of me and my two best girlfriends. We're all in our late forties/early fifties and he says the one thing we have in common is that we don't look our ages. Most people think we're in our thirties. ;)

[TheTimm]

I don't think it's selfish to want to be in charge of my own life before any other. Actually, that would serve a pretty good definition of what it means to be selfish. But there's nothing wrong with being selfish.

[Nancy]

^ You're right. It took me a long time to realize that.

[Rinky vs.4.0]

I think the problem we all have with that word is that it is used almost exclusively in a negative context.

We need to recognise there is a difference between the kind of selfishness which impacts negatively on others, and the kind of that simply means one has some self-respect and self-awareness of what is and isn't good for one.

[iciclespark]

And further, in a way, not having children simply because one feels she/he ought to is a non-selfish act. You're considering what's best for that potential child of yours and knowing yourself and your lack of desire to parent it and devote the necessary care and time, you choose not to have it.

[Rinky vs.4.0]

Well, yeah. It's obviously better not to bring a child into the world that you're going to resent on some level or not parent properly. That's what riles me up about people who insist everyone should breed, regardless of suitability - you could tell certain people "Yes, if I had a child I would neglect it and beat it around the head whenever it annoyed me," and they'd STILL bleat, "Oh no, but you should have one anyway!" and give you the "It's different when it's your own," schtick. To which I say, no, it bloody well isn't and the child abuse and neglect stats bear me out on this.

[Kari]

Oh, here's selfish and narcissistic for ya:

I don't want to have kids because for the first time in my life, I'm thin. And I would like to stay that way. ;l;l;l

[jenniferblaufrau]

I think the "it's so selfish not to have kids" stuff is thinly-veiled jealousy. What they're really pissy about is the fact that you get the freedom that comes with not having kids. You're so selfish to dare to have a life of your own.

[nirak]

I think the "it's so selfish not to have kids" stuff is thinly-veiled jealousy. What they're really pissy about is the fact that you get the freedom that comes with not having kids. You're so selfish to dare to have a life of your own.

Totally. And they forget that the reasons they had kids are selfish as well. It's hard to do ANYTHING that isn't for selfish reasons. Even giving money to charity is usually selfish, at least a little, because it makes you feel good.

[jeth]

A friend of mine and I were talking about the whole 'not having kids equals selfishness' debate the other day and we decided that it could be totally construed as the other way around.

For example, I do volunteer work with my spare time. I've tried to get others to join in but the excuse I always get is "Oh, I don't have a babysitter" or "Oh, we've got to go out of town this weekend so the kids can visit grandma and grandpa" or "Oh, I just don't have the time with raising a family and all." So are they really, truly too busy to give a few hours once a month to a good cause, or are they just completely unwilling to do volunteer work and so they fall back on the family excuse to get out of it?

Yeah. Can't call me selfish for not wanting kids. I'm not the one backing out of charity and volunteer work and using kids as an excuse.

[jenniferblaufrau]

I was getting a hot stone massage at the massage school in my neighborhood (heavily discounted) last week, and the student and I were chatting a bit now and then during the massage. One of her questions was, "So are you and your boyfriend planning on having children?" I said I wasn't sure yet, but if we did, we definitely didn't plan to until our mid-30s or so. And she (a mother herself) was like, "Well, if you do, do alllll the traveling and staying up late and spontaneous fun stuff you want to do now, because once you have kids, that's your life."

Now, I don't think it has to be that way. I can think of people who definitely seem to have a life beyond babies (supernova and s&c come to mind). But it was sad. And, well, it made me REALLY glad I don't have kids right now. :p

[jeth]

It's totally possible to have an awesome, exciting, fulfilling life with kids. Totally possible, and I know many women who do it.

I think maybe what she was getting at is that you can't just up and go places with little or no notice as easily as you can now.

[Kari]

Poached from my friend's MySpace blog:

Babies: So tiny, so terrifying

There are two newborn babies in my office today: They are two thirds of the triplets that were born to one of the employees.

I must say, seeing living humans that are that tiny is AMAZING.

They are so strange - like little cute aliens.

However, as much as I am mesmerized by their beauty, innocence, etc., I am also struck with an ineffible fear, which has prompted me to think about other cute yet terrifying things.

The only thing I could come up with so far is the killer rabbit in the Holy Grail. Thus, I have put together the following equations:

Babies = cute + scary

cute + scary = killer rabbits

And thus we have Reason #6 not to have kids: (according to the law of syllogism) babies = killer rabbits.

;l;l

[jeth]

Not to mention rabbits are for boiling, and I'm sure a boiled baby would smell pretty bad.

[PandaWatch!]

It's totally possible to have an awesome, exciting, fulfilling life with kids. Totally possible, and I know many women who do it.

I think maybe what she was getting at is that you can't just up and go places with little or no notice as easily as you can now.

Exactly. I have one child and planning is of the essence. Do I miss being able to go out to dinner and movie whenever I feel like it? Hells yea. But I knew this going into it and it's not a big deal. Now things like that are a treat and that's just fine with me.
When it all comes down to it, we're all selfish bastards, childfree or not. That's human nature. What's important is doing what's right for you at the time. I don't regret having my child but I do miss the abundance of free time, especially now that I'm back taking classes. At lease those of you here in this thread are thinking things through. Far better to decide to be childfree and be happy with that than to have a child because it's "just what you do." I have a friend with that logic. Now she's married and of course having a baby comes next. My question was, "Well, do you want a child?"

[xlmdxlmd]

i like Children

[chickentart]

why is it considered selfish to live your life the way you see fit?

it's a life choice--if i want extra money to travel/produce my plays/learn yoga/whatever instead of having a kid, how is that selfish? I'm just making a different choice.


if you don't have a desire to be a parent and take on that burden and that responsibility, then i think that's putting yourself first. great, but i think that putting yourself first is by definition self-centered. however, i don't think that should have or needs to have a negative connotation. i think if you want put your own life before any other, that's your life choice and that's a great life choice. there doesn't have to be an automatic negative attachment to being self-aware, self-centered. it is what it is.

selfish sort of connotes greediness, and i definitely don't think choosing yourself as your life priority is greedy. it's just a choice.

[jeth]

But couldn't you also argue that deciding to have a child of your own, with your genetics and blood line, is self-centered because there are so many perfectly good children in existence already that desperately need good homes?

Or choosing to have a child period, whether it's natural or adopted, is self-centered? You're making a life decision that's going to affect so many others - because that child exists society now has to pay to educate it, feed it, clothe it, give you tax breaks to help offset the cost of the basic necessities, and eventually our planet has to be stretched a little bit thinner resource-wise because there's yet another human walking the earth that will likely end up creating more human beings down the line.

Any choice you make about how you want to live your life is self-centered, whether that choice is to have children or not have children. Though I would say that the CF choice is going to create a lot less of an impact on society, the earth, etc. than the choice to have kids will.

[Rinky vs.4.0]

People who desperately want a child to 'complete' their family or fulfil their sense of femininity or because they 'want to be a mother' or whatever are putting THEIR needs first, not the child's. They want a child for themelves, not for the child's sake. That's fine, but let's as Jess said, please recognise it for what it is - just another form of self-serving. Only a martyr would have a child because they wanted the 'unselfish' aspects of motherhood - the financial burden, the responsibility, the curtailmant of certain personal freedoms for a while. Seriously, I doubt anyone has a child for THOSE reasons.

[Kari]

People who desperately want a child to 'complete' their family or fulfil their sense of femininity or because they 'want to be a mother' or whatever are putting THEIR needs first, not the child's. They want a child for themelves, not for the child's sake. That's fine, but let's as Jess said, please recognise it for what it is - just another form of self-serving. .

Agreed. I do see what the lovely ms. chicken was trying to say though - that its a valid choice despite the whole self-centered connotation that the CF lifestyle is given.

I like to view my CF status as helping the world, honestly.

[chickentart]

But couldn't you also argue that deciding to have a child of your own, with your genetics and blood line, is self-centered because there are so many perfectly good children in existence already that desperately need good homes?



I think you could absolutely argue that.

I think the selfless choice is ultimately putting that other life before your own. Why you choose choose parenthood... that's different. Those reasons could be totally selfish. (having a child rather than adopting, wanting a child to fufill a goal of womenhood/femininity, etc) But if you're choosing another rather than the self as a priority, despite your motivation, that's a selfless act. However, in the case of selfish motivation, selflessness does not necessarily connote goodness. It is what it is. Just another person's life before your own. And doing that doesn't make you any less selfish as whole. But it's a selfless act.

It's kind of like how Kant said, there are no truly moral people. People do good things only for selfish reasons. There is no truly moral or good person, because everyone's motivations are selfish when it comes to doing good deeds.


I guess I'm talking semantics. I'm definitely not passing judgment.

[jeth]

I guess the way I see it choosing NOT to have children can also be a very selfless act. By not having kids I'm not burdening others with taking care of those kids down the line should something happen to me. I'm not helping push the earth towards more overpopulation, and I'm certainly not passing on the shitty cocktail of genetic predisposition that I inherited to another generation and possibly more generations after that. By not having kids I'm making sure there aren't any more people coming into this world to use up resources, end up being another drain on social security (should it even exist by that point) and on the healthcare system.

If you want to be totally selfless adopt animals instead of having babies. Preferably adult animals from shelter groups and rescue organizations. Give them good, loving homes.

[chickentart]

^^ I think that's definitely a valid argument as well. :)

[Kari]

If you want to be totally selfless adopt animals instead of having babies. Preferably adult animals from shelter groups and rescue organizations. Give them good, loving homes.

YES!

*proud mommy of two shelter rescue cats*

They were babies though when I got them, not adults. :( I was younger though and hadn't worked in a shelter yet. Now I'd pick an adult, even though I love love love kittens.

[2timemommy]

i think you people are selfish and mean! Why do you hate kids so much? are you just jealous of people who have them? Are you just afraid of the pain of childbirth so you put down people who have kids? not only that but you put down the children themselves! you were a child once be grateful that your mother didnt think of you like that (maybe she did i dont know that would explain alot)

[Kollins]

i think you people are selfish and mean!

I think you're an unimaginative silly woman who can't seem to grasp the concept that different people have different goals in life, and having kids is something some people just don't want to do.

Is it so hard to conceive of the idea that different things make different people happy? How does some people not having kids, or disliking kids, affect or change your life in any way?

Hint: it doesn't.

[Thom.]

i think you people are selfish and mean! Why do you hate kids so much? are you just jealous of people who have them? Are you just afraid of the pain of childbirth so you put down people who have kids? not only that but you put down the children themselves! you were a child once be grateful that your mother didnt think of you like that (maybe she did i dont know that would explain alot)

http://home.zcu.cz/~topicz/Foto/Shut%20The%20Fuck%20Up%20.jpg

I'm sure your mother is proud of this post of yours, which clearly indicates the essential need for euthanasia on your behalf.

[Rinky vs.4.0]

i think you people are selfish and mean! Why do you hate kids so much? are you just jealous of people who have them? Are you just afraid of the pain of childbirth so you put down people who have kids? not only that but you put down the children themselves! you were a child once be grateful that your mother didnt think of you like that (maybe she did i dont know that would explain alot)

So, we're SELFISH and MEAN. Super. Let's have fun living up to our image, shall we? Let's see:

Shoo, you slack-jawed, piss-brained, cavernous-arsed, fatuous little promock. Your water-brained children are likely to drown in the bath while you take the time to troll this board with your lamentably semi-literate and uneducated witterings.

PS. It's down the road, not across the street. :)!

'2timemommy'. I ask you.

[iciclespark]

i think you people are selfish and mean! Why do you hate kids so much? are you just jealous of people who have them? Are you just afraid of the pain of childbirth so you put down people who have kids? not only that but you put down the children themselves! you were a child once be grateful that your mother didnt think of you like that (maybe she did i dont know that would explain alot)

I don't hate kids. I regularly support charities for troubled youth. I hate lousy parents and I hate being subjected to unruly spawn.

I'm not afraid of pain - I used to self-injure. Pain is no stranger.

And by the way, as a mother, shouldn't you set a good example and a) act like an adult (instead of trolling and bingoing CF people) and b) work harder at proper punctuation and spelling?

[GPZ]

i think you people are selfish and mean! Why do you hate kids so much? are you just jealous of people who have them? Are you just afraid of the pain of childbirth so you put down people who have kids? not only that but you put down the children themselves! you were a child once be grateful that your mother didnt think of you like that (maybe she did i dont know that would explain alot)

Perhaps you should have read the Forum Intro and FAQ before you posted this and made a fool out of yourself. Piss off. This is not a place for you.

[iciclespark]

If you have children, or are undecided, you are quite welcome to read and contribute here if you so wish. However, you are specifically asked NOT to 'bingo' or lecture the posters here on how their decisions or lifestyle are wrong, or how they will change their minds or get your knickers in a twist because some people here don't like kids for whatever reason. Believe me, we've heard it ALL before, and we're sick of it, hence the need for dedicated childfree spaces where we can discuss without being berated or having to explain ourselves constantly. If you need to tell us how awful or bitter we are, don't bother. Any obvious trolling will result in a forum-specific ban. Any posting of threads including kiddie pics will be moved to the parents' pad.

Just thought since you obviously skipped the rules thread I'd help ya out.

[Rinky vs.4.0]

Perhaps you should have read the Forum Intro and FAQ before you posted this and made a fool out of yourself. Piss off. This is not a place for you.

I like you. Post more.

[Julie]

I like you too. Post lots.

[HideAndSeek]

i think you people are selfish and mean! Why do you hate kids so much? are you just jealous of people who have them? Are you just afraid of the pain of childbirth so you put down people who have kids? not only that but you put down the children themselves! you were a child once be grateful that your mother didnt think of you like that (maybe she did i dont know that would explain alot)

The fact that you already have one living spawn and another on the way, call yourself 2timemommy and your livejournal name is mother and loving it, simply tells me that you need to get a fucking life. If you want to breed then good for you, but children are not the be all and end all for everyone. I pity your poor children, who will no doubt grow up smothered by your insatiable need to complete yourself, by creating smaller versions of you. You clearly have no interests outside of populating the earth, which makes mommy a very boring, narrow minded and tedious person. My heart goes out to those who must suffer in your company, as no doubt you are only able to discuss morning sickness, heartburn, fluid retention, diaper changing, tantrums and the idiosyncrasies you think are adorable in your child, that actually annoy the crap out of everyone else and make them want to beat your child, and you, to death.

I fail to understand how not wanting children, or enjoying being around children raised by incompetent parents, means someone is jealous of those who do breed? Have you considered that devoting your entire life to one obsession may have somewhat clouded your judgement? Deluding yourself into thinking others are jealous of your inability to eat crumpets and drive a mercedes benz, would be amusing if it wasn't so sad and pathetic. It is not a prerequisite of being in this world that one must want to breed, love all children or being endlessly forgiving of those who should never be permitted to be parents in the first place.

Also, if you are going to come into this forum and post your banal, self-congratulatory opinions, then please, as other members have already suggested, read the fucking forum guidelines first. Clearly you have some level of literacy if you were able to read enough of our posts to comment on them. Secondly, try to think before you let your fingers loose on the keyboard. You don't do anything to promote your cause by unleashing poorly formed, redundant insults on us. At least have a bit of creativity if you're going to endeavour to attack people who've heard it all before.

[Heart of Moon]

God, HideAndSeek, how do you do that? Teach me!

[iciclespark]

I want to have sex with HideAndSeek now.
*fans self*

[Kari]

I love you guys. That is all. :)!

[Master Shaman]

you put down the children themselves!
Yes! It's called a post-natal abortion. You should look into it. Maybe if you put your own children to sleep you wouldn't be so deeply frustrated by your parenthood status and you wouldn't feel the need to troll a board filled with non-sprog-ridden folk. :)!

[HideAndSeek]

Yes! It's called a post-natal abortion. You should look into it. Maybe if you put your own children to sleep you wouldn't be so deeply frustrated by your parenthood status and you wouldn't feel the need to troll a board filled with non-sprog-ridden folk. :)!

*sniggers*

[PandaWatch!]

i think you people are selfish and mean!

*sigh* Babies having babies. So sad.

[GPZ]

I like you. Post more.

I like you too. Post lots.


*blushes*

[Kari]

Hey, its not often we get someone who actually reads the FAQ! [post28]!

[Julie]

Plus you're a social worker-- very admirable. [post28]

[empresskara]

CNN today did a story about happiness. As it turns out, childfree people are happier than people with children.

Obviously 2timemommy didn't get the memo.

(Of course it also said older, married republicans are happier than younger, single democrats.) :(

[RedHead]

(Of course it also said older, married republicans are happier than younger, single democrats.) :(

older, married, republicans = money.

[empresskara]

I know, they didn't touch at all on the money issue. But it was just a short little blurb on CNN.

And all of those things they said independently. You get happier as you get older. Married people are happier than single people. Republicans are happier than Democrats (maybe not recently though!) and both are happier than independents. Childless people are happier than the childed. I just kinda threw it all together.

[mackelly]

As far as "selfish" goes, I absolutely think people who choose not to have kids choose it for selfish reasons. And I think people who choose TO have kids do it for selfish reasons. I think almost everything anyone does is for selfish reasons. And I don't think there's a damned thing wrong with that.
That is so true. [post67]

[jenniferblaufrau]

The fact that you already have one living spawn and another on the way, call yourself 2timemommy and your livejournal name is mother and loving it, simply tells me that you need to get a fucking life. If you want to breed then good for you, but children are not the be all and end all for everyone. I pity your poor children, who will no doubt grow up smothered by your insatiable need to complete yourself, by creating smaller versions of you. You clearly have no interests outside of populating the earth, which makes mommy a very boring, narrow minded and tedious person. My heart goes out to those who must suffer in your company, as no doubt you are only able to discuss morning sickness, heartburn, fluid retention, diaper changing, tantrums and the idiosyncrasies you think are adorable in your child, that actually annoy the crap out of everyone else and make them want to beat your child, and you, to death.

I fail to understand how not wanting children, or enjoying being around children raised by incompetent parents, means someone is jealous of those who do breed? Have you considered that devoting your entire life to one obsession may have somewhat clouded your judgement? Deluding yourself into thinking others are jealous of your inability to eat crumpets and drive a mercedes benz, would be amusing if it wasn't so sad and pathetic. It is not a prerequisite of being in this world that one must want to breed, love all children or being endlessly forgiving of those who should never be permitted to be parents in the first place.

Also, if you are going to come into this forum and post your banal, self-congratulatory opinions, then please, as other members have already suggested, read the fucking forum guidelines first. Clearly you have some level of literacy if you were able to read enough of our posts to comment on them. Secondly, try to think before you let your fingers loose on the keyboard. You don't do anything to promote your cause by unleashing poorly formed, redundant insults on us. At least have a bit of creativity if you're going to endeavour to attack people who've heard it all before.
;l

[tubby3pug]

Exactly. I have one child and planning is of the essence. Do I miss being able to go out to dinner and movie whenever I feel like it? Hells yea. But I knew this going into it and it's not a big deal. Now things like that are a treat and that's just fine with me.
When it all comes down to it, we're all selfish bastards, childfree or not. That's human nature. What's important is doing what's right for you at the time. I don't regret having my child but I do miss the abundance of free time, especially now that I'm back taking classes. At lease those of you here in this thread are thinking things through. Far better to decide to be childfree and be happy with that than to have a child because it's "just what you do." I have a friend with that logic. Now she's married and of course having a baby comes next. My question was, "Well, do you want a child?"

Exactly. I visit a lot of childfree boards because Im thinking about whether or not to have kids and one thing I dont get is the animosity on both sides. With moms calling childfree folks selfish and childfree folks calling moms moos. It is like a return to junior high. If you want kids, great, and ifyou dont, great. I havent made up my mind one way or the other yet, I like kids but I need to really consider if I want to embrace all the changes the would entail in my life, and the anser for now is NO. Really the only factor in my decison will be do I want a kid, and does my husband, if the answer is yes then I will do it, if its no I wont. End of story. If I dont have kids it doesnt mean I dont like them. If I do have kids it doesnt mean I will turn into another person and only define myself as a mommy, god forbid. People should do what they feel is right for them and forget about everything else.

[HideAndSeek]

Exactly. I visit a lot of childfree boards because Im thinking about whether or not to have kids and one thing I dont get is the animosity on both sides. With moms calling childfree folks selfish and childfree folks calling moms moos. It is like a return to junior high. If you want kids, great, and ifyou dont, great. I havent made up my mind one way or the other yet, I like kids but I need to really consider if I want to embrace all the changes the would entail in my life, and the anser for now is NO. Really the only factor in my decison will be do I want a kid, and does my husband, if the answer is yes then I will do it, if its no I wont. End of story. If I dont have kids it doesnt mean I dont like them. If I do have kids it doesnt mean I will turn into another person and only define myself as a mommy, god forbid. People should do what they feel is right for them and forget about everything else.

I think you've missed part of the point made my a lot of childfree people. I shall only speak for myself when I say that I love good parents. I will happily spend time with children who have been raised properly, with a good sense of self-esteem, pride, manners and intelligence. I particularly like it when these parents have interests outside of their children, and don't place the whole importance of their life on their kids. This not only develops the parent, but teaches the child that they are not the centre of the universe, and that the things in life with value require hard work.

However, when all someone can do is talk about their children, show you photos of their children, refuse to discipline their children appropriately, and then go on to tell you how much your life is lacking through choosing to be childfree, I get extremely annoyed. There are no predetermined rules or preferences for parents or the childfree, and I know plenty of parents who can't stand alot of children, simply because of how they've been raised. My issue is only with those parents who do not take the job of raising someone, and being responsible for their mental and physical well-being, as the most important job anyone could have.

[PandaWatch!]

There are no predetermined rules or preferences for parents or the childfree, and I know plenty of parents who can't stand alot of children, simply because of how they've been raised. My issue is only with those parents who do not take the job of raising someone, and being responsible for their mental and physical well-being, as the most important job anyone could have.


Well said! It can be hard to find that middle ground between parents and childfree. As is human nature, we like to group people as one thing or another and it just isn't that simple. It's all about individual choice and what is best for you and your circumstances. Oh, and not expecting everyone else to choose what you have chosen. Some people just can't fathom why another person wouldn't want the exact life that they have or hear about their "perfect life" ad nauseum.

[Rose Bud]

Well said! It can be hard to find that middle ground between parents and childfree. As is human nature, we like to group people as one thing or another and it just isn't that simple. It's all about individual choice and what is best for you and your circumstances. Oh, and not expecting everyone else to choose what you have chosen. Some people just can't fathom why another person wouldn't want the exact life that they have or hear about their "perfect life" ad nauseum.


I was talking to a friend of mine a little while ago and she asked about my kids, and added "I'm sorry but I just don't want children...". I told her there was no reason to be sorry! She's the sort that loves kids, just doesn't want any of her own. She was quite surprised to hear me say that I understood and respected that. I suppose other parents she'd run into would bingo her after hearing that. Kids were the choice for my life, but it certainly isn't for everyone. I told her that she knows what's right for her, and who am I to say otherwise? But I definitely agree about lumping people into groups. Not all parents hate CF people! I have come across some moms that I'd have loved to tell them to their face "You're such a moo" and have them bewildered at what I meant!