The Martyr

[KV]

There is one thing that really pisses me off about some mothers and that is when they get all martyr on my ass. For instance, this woman that I used to work with pissed me off to no end. She has a pretty high position in which she has a lot of responsibility and she also has two little girls. Fine. Great. Beautiful! However, she would constantly whine about how hard she has it being the mother of two and having this high pressured job. She would drag her ass in always late and sighing and whining about her life and how much pressure she was under because of her kids and her job. I constantly wanted to smack the fucking shit out of her. She seemed to have forgotten that having children was her choice. Having a career was her choice.

The kick inside? She is pregnant again. And so I asked her, "So, has the shock worn off yet and are you starting to come to terms with the pregnancy?" And she looked at me and in a snotty voice said, "Well Rachel, how the hell would you feel if you were not preparing to have any children and all of a sudden found out you were pregnant?" And I said, "Well considering I am not married nor sexually active at the moment I would find it strange and shocking myself." UGH! Fuck you bitch! It's called birth control.

And maybe this angers me so much because my mother has had a career the whole of my brother's and my life and she never ever complained about having children. It is just not like her to do that. Now granted I never heard her say that to other people, but it is not her style at all. She accepted the choices she made and never whined or complained about them. She kept it from her co-workers if she was tired or irritated and did the best job she could dealing with it all.

And it is not only that women especially in places like America have a choice as to whether or not they get pregnant, but that they expect the rest of the world to help them with everything! Not all people feel this way of course and I have respect for the parents who actually assume responsibility. But there is this Family Movie Act (http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/29/cz_sf_0429clearplay.html) in which some video rental places/individuals would have the right to edit certain movies to make them watchable to younger viewers to "help the parents cope with all of the sex and violence and profanity that are found in certain movies." It is fucking bullshit! A.) Some of these asshole parents do not want to deal with these subjects with their children and so they decide that if they are censored out of all artworks then magically they will go away. B.) Life IS sex, violence and profanity. C.) Do your fucking job as a parent please. There are films that are meant for kids and films that are not. Deal with it.

I am not anti-parent or anti-children at all. And I do believe that it does take a village. I am in support of that, but sometimes I get so fucking irritated at how lazy parenting seems to have become and how easy people tend to blame their children and society for their heavy workloads instead of just dealing with it with some semblance of strength and grace.

Ok...sorry...had to vent some of that out.

xo
Rachel

[Kari]

And so I asked her, "So, has the shock worn off yet and are you starting to come to terms with the pregnancy?" And she looked at me and in a snotty voice said, "Well Rachel, how the hell would you feel if you were not preparing to have any children and all of a sudden found out you were pregnant?"

I would be like "Yeah, I would think it sucked. Then I would get an abortion."

;l;l

It was her choice to keep it. WTF?

[KV]

^I know. That is the thing. She acts like the world did this to her and woe is her. Fuck that. I should have said, "I would get an abortion!" That would have been kick ass.

xo
Rachel

[Rinky vs.4.0]

Yeah, the martyr act is pretty hard to swallow, especially as those people are often the same ones who turn around and bingo the childless or childfree about how they're missing out or are incomplete persons at some point. Sometimes I think they do it for attention though - that it's a form of fishing for compliments about how brave or long-suffering or unselfish they are.

I have no sympathy for those who have a kid, KNOW they resent the subsequent lack of time/money for themselves that results from this, and then go on to have another child, then another and whine constantly about how haaaaard it all is. Don't they KNOW that everyone else is thinking, "So why the hell did you have them if you hate them so much?" Isn't one of the definitions of insanity doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results?

My mum, like yours Rachel, always had a career outside the home and she never pulled that bullshit on me and my sister or on others, either. She didn't resent working at all, she enjoyed it. I think some women do actually resent the fact that if they want a certain level of lifestyle, they have to put in the hours or have a double-income family. But god forbid you ever suggest they downsize the lifestyle and standard of living if they don't want to miss out on family time.

The Family Movie Act sounds utterly horrendous. Can't we expect parents to use their eyes and brains when it comes to picking a movie for their kids, and READ the ratings and the descriptions on the box? Responsible parents do just that. Why should the world pander to the irresponsible ones?

[Kari]

My mother used to bitch about how hard it was to raise kids, how she had to sacrifice, blah blah blah. My mom LOVES to be a martyr. One day, she was going on and on about it, and I said "It was your choice to have kids mom, not mine."

That shut her up!

[KV]

My mum, like yours Rachel, always had a career outside the home and she never pulled that bullshit on me and my sister or on others, either. She didn't resent working at all, she enjoyed it. I think some women do actually resent the fact that if they want a certain level of lifestyle, they have to put in the hours or have a double-income family. But god forbid you ever suggest they downsize the lifestyle and standard of living if they don't want to miss out on family time.

I think you are right about enjoying it. My mother is a go getter and she enjoys challenges. She is intelligent and sensitive enough to realize that she can make choices which will fulfill her life rather than suck it dry. She knew herself enough to understand what she would be entering into and so she chose and she challenged herself and she went about her business. As she is only human I am aware there were days that were very difficult and exhausting in which she had no idea stepping into that lifestyle, but she never whined on and on about it incessantly like a child herself. She is a woman and she acts as such. Perhaps much of it has to do with the era in which our mothers grew up? But I am not going to put too much money on that one.

And that is another thing that pisses me off about this woman with whom I worked. She is always throwing around how smart she thinks she is and what an intellectual. And she always has to have the best of the best of everything. Her husband is the vice-principal of a school so you know they have zero money. However, that does not stop her from buying the most expensive cars and cell phones and makeup and clothes. I just shake my head at her and think she is getting exactly what she deserves. She is in debt with another baby on the way and completely miserable. So she is definitely trying to live a lifestyle that she cannot maintain. She is like the personification of America right there. Completely overbloated in all ways.

xo
Rachel

[Rinky vs.4.0]

double post

[Rinky vs.4.0]

And that is another thing that pisses me off about this woman with whom I worked. She is always throwing around how smart she thinks she is and what an intellectual. And she always has to have the best of the best of everything. Her husband is the vice-principal of a school so you know they have zero money. However, that does not stop her from buying the most expensive cars and cell phones and makeup and clothes. I just shake my head at her and think she is getting exactly what she deserves. She is in debt with another baby on the way and completely miserable. So she is definitely trying to live a lifestyle that she cannot maintain. She is like the personification of America right there. Completely overbloated in all ways.

l

I believe they had a bunch of women (and men!) just like her on Oprah recently, on her 'Debt Diet' show. I didn't see the show - it's not on terrestrial over here anymore - but I read the website attached to it after a lot of discussion on other forums about it, and was utterly agog at these families' spending habits.

None of them were in debt from anything important or from necessity - like education or unforseen medical bills etc - they were all in horrendous, mostly six-figure debt from trying to live like movie stars and 'have the best of everything', spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on hair salon visits, make-up, eating out, designer clothes, cell phone bills and more cars than they could shake a stick at. All of them had above average incomes too and they still found ways to overspend and say how they had it hard. It made me utterly sick.

Their value systems were just SO fucked-up and none of them seemed to have any idea how the other half manages on quarter of their incomes or that real self-esteem is not based on material goods. I just couldn't find an ounce of sympathy for any of the buggers - all I could think was bed.made.lie.

I just don't understand what's so bad or hard about living within your income these days or why people still get surprised when they spend more than they make and end up with collection agencies banging down the door.

[Kollins]

I believe they had a bunch of women (and men!) just like her on Oprah recently, on her 'Debt Diet' show. I didn't see the show - it's not on terrestrial over here anymore - but I read the website attached to it after a lot of discussion on other forums about it, and was utterly agog at these families' spending habits.

None of them was in debt from anything important or from necessity - like education or unforseen medical bills etc - they were all in horrendous, mostly six-figure debt from trying to live like movie stars and 'have the best of everything', spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on hair salon visits, make-up, eating out, designer clothes, cell phone bills and more cars than they could shake a stick at. All of them had above average incomes too and they still found ways to overspend and say how they had it hard. It made me utterly sick.

Their value systems were just SO fucked-up and none of them seemed to have any idea how the other half manages on quarter of their incomes or that real self-esteem is not based on material goods. I just couldn't find an ounce of sympathy for any of the buggers - all I could think was bed.made.lie.

I just don't understand what's so bad or hard about living within your income these days or why people still get surprised when they spend more than they make and end up with collection agencies banging down the door.

All I can think to say at the moment is "hell yes!," but the force with which I wish to agree is so strong that it demanded a recreation of your entire post by quote.

When you have ample means and yet you cannot live within them, I will have very little sympathy for you.

[Kari]

All I can think to say at the moment is "hell yes!," but the force with which I wish to agree is so strong that it demanded a recreation of your entire post by quote.

When you have ample means and yet you cannot live within them, I will have very little sympathy for you.

My husband and I are in a lot of debt and have no one to blame but ourselves. We did not plan carefully enough for unexpected events and were frivolous at times. However, we still manage to pay our bills on time and have since nearly stopped using credit all together, and are reducing the load rapidly.

However, when there's a child to think of, you can't get $120 haircuts and $60,000SUV's.

My mom's friend has three kids who get $2,000 worth of Xmas gifts a year. She's a travel agent and her husband's a cop. They just went bankrupt for the second time 10 years ago, and now are back up to $75,000 in credit card debt and their fourth mortgage. So what do they do? Buy a new car. [bang]

[Kollins]

My husband and I are in a lot of debt and have no one to blame but ourselves. We did not plan carefully enough for unexpected events and were frivolous at times. However, we still manage to pay our bills on time and have since nearly stopped using credit all together, and are reducing the load rapidly.

See, I think being blindsided by unexpected expenditures is one of the 'legitimate' reasons for having debt. Sure, if you're wise and able, you should prepare for a rainy day, but it's not on the same level as getting . . .


. . . $120 haircuts and $60,000SUV's.

. . . when you plainly can't afford them. There's bad fortune, and then there's idiocy.

[Kari]

There's bad fortune, and then there's idiocy.

We had a little of both. ;l;l

But yeah...I have only had a 120 haircut ONCE. For my wedding. That included color ;) No one needs that.

[jenniferblaufrau]

What repulses me is the mothers who use their mothering as a guilt-inducing tool to manipulate their children into doing what they want for the rest of their lives, on into adulthood. E.g., “I gave up everything to raise my children! My children are my life! You’re all I have!” Blah blah frickin’ blah. It’s so pathetic.

More than anywhere I’ve ever lived, New Mexico is swarming with smothering, needy families. The ways in which I see people use and manipulate their family members (usually their children) here makes me sick. It’s no wonder that no one gets anything done here and everything is ramshackle and falling apart. The will to do anything exceptional get beaten out of people by needy, loser relatives with no lives of their own.

[Alex]

My mother=martyr.

Down to the "you cracked my spine coming out" being thrown at me when she was mad at me. Essentially I had to kiss her ass because she "suffered so much carrying me for 9 months in the womb." WTF? Thank Mom, I'm so glad I was such a burden to you.

[Kari]

;l;l

My mom's like "I ALMOST DIED WITH THE BOTH OF YA!!11"

Which is true. However, its not MY fault that she got pregnant. Twice. On purpose. We were both planned.

[tully]

... sometimes I get so fucking irritated at how lazy parenting seems to have become and how easy people tend to blame their children and society for their heavy workloads instead of just dealing with it with some semblance of strength and grace.

I 100% agree with you.

Whenever I read about these martyrs, I automatically think of my great-grandmother, who raised five children on her own on a farm when her youngest child and husband died of German measels before she was 25. This was, by the way, in Puerto Rico during the 1920s.

Then I think of my grandmother, who raised two children as an OR nurse on her own once her deadbeat, abusive alcoholic husband finally left.

Or my mother, who raised two children, finished her degree, cultivated a career, and served as the parent teacher association president at our elementary school for ten years.

Going back generations, my family has never made much money, but we never wanted for love. And beyond that, we never shirked responsibilities under the guise of them being "too much to handle." Woe is no one.

These lovely, lovely women reinforce the fact that yes, it can be done, without whining, simpering claims of needing help and being overloaded.

It also reinforces the fact that I will probably never have my own children, because I am basically the laziest person on the face of the earth.

[Alex]

^My mother had to go through hell to get pregnant with me apparently. She had weird reproductive issues (she miscarried three times later on). So now I roll my eyes if she pulls that on me.

Besides. Me=little baby. My brother=big baby. She should hate on him more.

[KV]

It also reinforces the fact that I will probably never have my own children, because I am basically the laziest person on the face of the earth.

I loved your whole post, but this is the part that I must comment on. It IS all about knowing yourself. I do not think I am lazy and even though I do not know you well I would think that you are not as lazy as you think you are or even lazy at all. However, you DO value your time greatly and it is something that takes priority. Same with me. I love that I am only responsible for me and my cat right now and sometimes my grandmother if my parents are out of town. And someday I may be responsible for my parents as well. That just comes with life I suppose and you can either choose to deal with it or not. IF I decide to have children one day then it will be because I feel that I am ready to take care of one properly and willing to devote my time to it and for no other reason. But it will have to be a priority and it will have to be at the top before that is something I choose to do. Otherwise there is no other reason to have or adopt children. There are plenty of people in the world procreating and I do not need to do it. The world will be fine without my developed eggs.

I will say that sometimes I do feel a little sad that my parents may not have the opportunity to have grandchildren because they are such kid lovers and they would be so happy. And my father is an only child and I always think how nice it would be for him to have grandchildren, but whenever I say things like that my parents stop me and respond with, "Rachel we don't care. We just want you to be happy." And that kills me! hahahahaha! But they are right in that I should never have children for anyone else or for any other reason, but the right ones.

Until then I am perfectly happy being child free and only concentrating on myself right now because really I am in no position to be a mother at all. I have too much to deal with to bring a kid into this world. It would not be fair to anybody.

xo
Rachel

[Rinky vs.4.0]

^My mother had to go through hell to get pregnant with me apparently. She had weird reproductive issues (she miscarried three times later on). So now I roll my eyes if she pulls that on me.

Apparently my mum had five miscarriages before she had me sister and then me. FIVE!

Thing is though, she never, ever talked about it to us growing up, and really never has. I only found out about all that when I was about eighteen, when I overheard her mention it to my aunt on the telephone.

[KV]

^Have you asked her about it since then? Five is a lot. Five is heartbreaking. I am not sure I could have handled that myself.

xo
Rachel

[Rinky vs.4.0]

We haven't had a deep discussion about it, no. Mum's not really the type to rake over the past, if you take my meaning. I've actually had more in-depth conversations about it with other family members who were there at the time.

[Fox in Socks]

It also reinforces the fact that I will probably never have my own children, because I am basically the laziest person on the face of the earth.im quoting this one too, as i am as well and i admit it.


the martyr thing is ridiculous. and it exists forever!
denali: i slept like shit last night
some mother: i always sleep like shit because of the bayyybeee

denali: i'm skint, no pub night for me.
SM: i NEVER have any money now that the bayyybees in preschool

denali: i cant wait to go on vacation
SM: i can never go on vacation without the teens wanting to bring their friends along. plus i have the new bayyyybeee.

etc. etc. etc

i mean wtf do you want? ok, im sorry you chose to have not one but MANY kids. your CHOICE. dont bitch to me about it :r

[jeth]

Alkjalkjalkajlaja, I love this thread.

Years and years ago a girl I knew got pregnant on purpose. I spent months trying to convince her how stupid she was - she wasn't dating the father, he split as soon as he heard the news, quit his job and started working under the table so he had no reportable, and therefore no child support trackable, income. Still, she wouldn't listen, had the baby, and that was that.

Until she started bringing the kid to work. Two months after squeezing it out she comes into work one day with the baby carrier, plops it down on the front desk, picks up the little fleshloaf and starts cooing "Oooh, mommy works so HARD, doesn't she baby! She has to work AND be a mommy at the same time!" I nearly vomited. And I was half tempted to call the boss and see what she thought about the girl showing up to shift with baby in tow - I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have gone down very well, even despite the fact that the girl's mom worked there and the baby was only going to be on the premises (in an employee only area, though) for about an hour until grandma's shift ended and she could take the kid home.

It was just the most disgusting display of 'OMGLOOKATME!' I've ever seen. I was so mad at this girl by this point (as I was in the process of ending our very, very long friendship) that I never even looked at the kid. I made some comment about how we weren't supposed to have non-employees behind the desk, clocked out, and left without another word. I think she seriously believed that if she dangled this drooling wad of diapers in front of me that I'd jump in and want to hold it and validate her in her choice to have a kid. Nope, sorry.

[nirak]

OK, first, I must remember to thank my mom. She struggled a LOT with us, and got angry at us and yelled and screamed, and was poor as hell for a long time, but she never ONCE played the martyr card on us. Plus the fact that she's just awesome.

The kick inside? She is pregnant again. And so I asked her, "So, has the shock worn off yet and are you starting to come to terms with the pregnancy?" And she looked at me and in a snotty voice said, "Well Rachel, how the hell would you feel if you were not preparing to have any children and all of a sudden found out you were pregnant?"

Where the fuck has she been these last few decades? Has she never heard of Birth Control? I don't understand how people can be surprised by this stuff anymore. If you REALLY don't want to be pregnant, use birth control. Be responsible about it (every day, same time) use backup when necessary.

Any if she really didn't want any more kids, why not get her tubes tied?

What really bugs me about all this is that her kids will probably grow up to feel as if they're a burden and weren't wanted, and might pass on her passive agressive needy bullshit to their kids. Even if they escape that, it'll take a lot to work their way out of the damage done by the mom.

This is why I don't want kids. Hell, even with my cats I sometimes think "geez, they're such a burden" - and they pretty much take care of themselves. This is how I know I should not have kids. I would NEVER want to do that to a child, that's just cruel.

[Sarah.]

The woman I was au pair for last year thought she was such a martyr, which was so ridiculous - her husband was a millionaire so she didn't have to work, all her kids were in school, and she had me, a housekeeper and a gardener to help her out when her husband was working away! She'd complain about how she hardly ever had time to herself anymore, that her life revolved around her children. Well, duh! Did she expect to be able to stay a bourgeoisie society girl when she had 4 kids? And anyway, she did bugger all, just got her hair done 3 times a week and went to pottery classes and charity events, while the rest of us looked after her kids. She was a nice person but I couldn't be doing with her whining about how hard her life was.

My mother worked full time and brought up three children, sometimes with us relying on just her income because my step-dad was seriously ill and couldn't work for a few years. She never complained, and if I ask her if she ever regrets having kids so young (she was 23 when she had me) she says it was entirely her choice to be a mother, and she just got on with it, because she knew she really didn't have it that bad at all.

And don't get me started on people who complain about being pregnant again. If you really don't want another child that badly, take precautions, for God's sake! You don't even have to pay for birth control in Britain, so there's absolutely no excuse.

[Rinky vs.4.0]

Sarah, I worked with a woman a bit like that in Sinagpore. Not quite in the same income bracket, but still, she had three kids, a nice salary and a live-in maid which meant she didn't do any housework or cooking and she could have a night out with her husband or friends anytime she wanted, more or less. Yet I'd often walk into the staffroom to find her holding forth about how bloody HARD she worked and it wasn't FAIR and stuff that to be able to buy two houses (what? only TWO? ahsdhajkaka) in England she had to WORK as well as her husband and oh it's so HARD. I'm sorry, who chose to have THREE kids by the time she was thirty? You'd think they were forced on her the way she went on. I wanted to slap the living shit out of the whiny bint on a regular basis.

[Boomer #8]

First of all, KundaVega...your response to that woman was fucking brilliant. I wish I was there to see the look in her face. lol.

These women who bitch and play the martyrs hasn't got a clue. I seriously doubt their struggle, because they probably have choices. They have it so much better than most women. My mother raised three children with little money all by herself, and I never heard her complain or regret having me and my siblins.

[KV]

What really bugs me about all this is that her kids will probably grow up to feel as if they're a burden and weren't wanted, and might pass on her passive agressive needy bullshit to their kids. Even if they escape that, it'll take a lot to work their way out of the damage done by the mom.

Exactly. When I worked there I would play with the kids when they came in and she would still whine as if me playing with them was a burden! I would think...listen bitch...I am taking care of your kids free of charge and we are all having fun. WTF?? I mean she is a nice lady and she does love her children, but she is absolutely passive aggressive and you can tell when the whole family comes in that they are severely affected by it. Her husband is as miserable as all hell and do not even get me started on how she talks about him.

This is why I don't want kids. Hell, even with my cats I sometimes think "geez, they're such a burden" - and they pretty much take care of themselves.

I have to laugh at this! I sometimes feel the same way about my cat. He will start meowing for food in the morning and I always get so irritated as much as I love the little bugger. I do a "Five more minutes pookie!" for about an hour before I actually get up to feed him...hehehe. So yeah a kid right now? No fucking way.

I have to admit that sometimes my aunt is a bit of a martyr as well Sarah and Helen reminded me of that with their rich lady stories. My aunt is really such a wonderful woman. She has a heart of gold, but she also has millions because she married money. She has two boys who are 17 and 12 now so they are pretty much old enough to take care of themselves and such good kids. She has no job. She has had no job for about 20 years now. She is an artist and a musician and is very good, but she really only does these things as a hobby.

What would piss me off about her the most is when she and our cousin would get together and my aunt would start complaining about how busy and tired she is with no job, two house cleaners and a babysitter with two well behaved little boys. My cousin is a single mother of three boys all close in age, makes a living working on a paper route in which she has to get up at 3am every morning and has absolutely no money to speak of, BUT she is putting herself through college. Anytime we all get together and my aunt starts this crap we all just look at her and laugh. And she has NO idea she does it. My mom and I have a joke when we call her to go out or something and she says she is so busy we alway shake our heads and say, "A- is the busiest woman doing nothing in the entire world."

GAH! It pisses me off, especially since last night I saw this special about these two familes who have children with a skin disease called, Harlequin Ichthyosis (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=21075). The routine these mothers have to go through every day to keep their children alive is unbelievable. And they were all SO grateful to have their children despite the illness. It just made me angrier about this whole thing when I saw that last night.

xo
Rachel

[jenniferblaufrau]

The martyr mothers I know of are also very lazy people. Most of them don't have to worry about money and never really have. They have either never worked or worked only briefly. They try to get other people to do things for them; they complain endlessly about the few things they themselves do; they make life seem like an all-around miserable experience. The Martyr Mother is one of the saddest, most pitiful--and most annoying--characters in the game of life. I think women like this are an insult to all women.

[RedHead]

It's unfortunate but the people like this would find something - anything - to complain about, no matter how much money, or how many maids, hosuekeepers, homes etc they had. Some people are just looking for reasons to be unhappy and so they will succeed.

[nirak]

I just saw Crash last night, and the Martyr is the Sandra Bullock character. Except most of them don't ever realize WHY their lives suck like she did.

[KV]

^So bizarre. I just read your response while listening to the song Arrival on the Crash soundtrack.

xo
Rachel