Somebody shoot me.

[KV]

My aunt just said, "I really feel sorry for Oprah not having children and all."

ummmm.....what?

There are just so many things wrong with that statement that I cannot even begin to acknowledge! I love my aunt to pieces. She has a heart of gold and is truly a sweet and lovely person, but she gets serious crap points for this. Now granted I did set her straight and all and she kinda sorta agreed, but fucking UGH! Seriously. No. Seriously!

[pan]

xo
Rachel

[Rinky vs.4.0]

If Oprah wanted kids, I'm sure she'd have them by some method or other - IVF, surrogacy, adoption. The woman could buy a small African country with her pocket change, for god's sake.

I mean if someone wants kids and cannot have them, go ahead and pity them. Pity me for my CHOICE and I'll set fire to your face.

[KV]

^It's not only that. It is the whole notion that somehow something emotional and spiritual is missing from Oprah's life simply because she did not procreate. Has my aunt not heard or read or seen all of the amazing moments that Oprah has experienced in her life? Also, she completely misses the boat in that Oprah would never be able to do the work that she does with children. My aunt just thinks the most satisfying experience for a woman is having a child

She also has not considered that what Oprah has accomplished for the hundreds of thousands of children in not only America, but Africa is astounding. I mean does my aunt not see how that can bring someone the same kind of profound emotional fulfilment as having children brings to her? It just fucking amazes me.

I honestly think that even with children my aunt feels there is something missing in her life because her children define her and so they are placed upon a pedestal as the end all be all of what being a human being is all about. It just totally pisses me off at the same time makes ME pity my aunt.

xo
Rachel

[Rinky vs.4.0]

^It's not only that. It is the whole notion that somehow something emotional and spiritual is missing from Oprah's life simply because she did not procreate ...... My aunt just thinks the most satisfying experience for a woman is having a child

Oh lord. Is this because it's been HER most satisfying experience? Talk about projection ......


She also has not considered that what Oprah has accomplished for the hundreds of thousands of children in not only America, but Africa is astounding. I mean does my aunt not see how that can bring someone the same kind of profound emotional fulfilment as having children brings to her?l

Some people cannot understand how anyone could want anything other than the old husband-Mcmansion-2.5 kids life script 'dream'. They just can't. They don't have the ability or the imagination. They can't see how any form of creativity, no matter how unique or impressive, can surpass doing what 265 billion other humans have done over the course of human history. It's like there's a mental block there that stops them seeing women as human beings with diverse emotional and psychological needs. Women = uterus = babies as far as they are concerned. Everythiung else is either secondary or just a sad substitute.

The cultural meme that we must all form partnerships and nuclear families and sprog is just so deep-seated and I think it's only just begun to be challenged in the last few decades. You've seen how offended people can be about the mere existence of a childfree forum or how threatened and annoyed they can be by a person who is proud to stand up and say they dislike children or that they have no interest in them. We all know how many of us get flack from simply saying, "Catagorically, no babies for me, ever." It's because there is still a widespread assumption that normal people automatically want kids and marriage and all that stuff. Challenge that by statement or example and it still makes a lot of people quite uneasy and suspicious. It's a knee-jerk reaction because it's something they haven't yet challenged themselves.

[monkeymix]

I am pretty sure Oprah is leading a pretty fulfilling life without having reproduced. I mean, the woman is a gajillionaire for crying out loud.

(And I am no Oprah fan.)

My favorite are the people who seem to think that a woman is somehow less of a woman if she has not had a child. Wtf?

[KV]

^I know. Be sure to check with the women you say that to who have had hysterctomies or who cannot have children for some biological reason. I mean seriously. People are fucking idiots.

xo
Rachel

[queensiefaerie]

Oprah's child is her career.

[hollerskates]

a client at work shared a few things with me today:

1. i'll change my mind about not having kids.
2. having kids is like fairy dust being blown in your eyes.
3. after having her child she realized that even though she loved her husband, she could take him or leave him.

and if by "fairy dust being blown in your eyes" she meant, "painful and annoying," then yes, it indeed is like having fairy dust blown in your eyes.

[Rinky vs.4.0]

3. after having her child she realized that even though she loved her husband, she could take him or leave him.



Gosh. How heartwarming!

So, I guess she won't be bothered or feel betrayed by the man she 'loves' if one day he ups and tells her that since she's had kids, he can take or leave her, and by the way, he's leaving her. For someone who doesn't treat him like yesterday's newspaper. Ugh.

As for the fairy dust thing ...... uh huh. Sounds like someone's attempting to blow smoke up her own arse rather than yours there.

[KV]

and if by "fairy dust being blown in your eyes" she meant, "painful and annoying," then yes, it indeed is like having fairy dust blown in your eyes.

Not to mention blinds you.

xo
Rachel

[jenniferblaufrau]

That's... sad. But not uncommon.

I guess I must be lucky. I just don't have anyone in my life who expresses these thoughts to me. I mean, I'm not even resolutely against having kids, but no one -- not my parents, friends, or anyone -- ever pressures me or even asks about it. My girlfriends and I talk about it now and then, but it's always a pretty light conversation.

[KV]

^Wow that is unusual. I am lucky that my parents have never expressed that kind of thing to me either. In fact my mother was there when my aunt said that and sided with me regarding my perspective on that statement . We have talked a lot about it because although I have not felt the pressure from my parents, I do of course feel some pressure from society. I cannot escape that and there are moments when I think how my mother would love to be a grandmother and that I would love to provide that for her someday. But when I bring these concerns up she says, "Oh Rachel. Please do not ever feel that way because your dad and I don't care. We just want you to be happy." That means the world to a woman...to have parents who express that.

My aunt and my mother are two ends of the spectrum. One is a highly independent, strong, successful, savvy career woman. The other is a lovely woman, but one who has never found the strength to be as independent as perhaps she would have liked and married into money and wifedom. They both have had a very different childhood even though they grew up in the same family so there is a lot to be said for that. For instance their father who they loved VERY much died when my aunt was very young. She was his baby and my mother basically had to bring up my aunt. So yeah...you can clearly see some of the textbook patterns there.

xo
Rachel

[jenniferblaufrau]

That is cool that she's understanding, too.

One thing that helps me out is that I have scads of older siblings, and all but one have children, so my parents are grandparents many times over. Takes the pressure off me. But actually, even if there were no grandkids, I don't think they'd try to interfere.

Pretty much all of my friends are independent, gainfully employed, and quite well in charge of their lives. It's a relief to know people who aren't all on the wedding/baby track.

[Kari]

3. after having her child she realized that even though she loved her husband, she could take him or leave him.


A story, if you will, and I try not to be like OMGMARRIED all the time, but here's the deal.

I went on Wellbutrin because I wanted to quit smoking, and had a ghastly reaction to it that nearly sent me to the doctor yesterday. My doctor ordered me to take a tranquilizer and get rest, and stop the medication immediately. In my stoned out misery, between sobbing spells and migraine headaches, my husband asked me what I wanted, what would make me feel better. I proclaimed that I wanted a Mister Softee sundae with fudge. Now, this involves the elusive ice cream truck that drives around our neighborhood.

The man went to the store and bought ice cream when he couldn't find the truck. And then, upon returning home, he heard the tinkling music of the truck and RAN after the damn thing, coming back with said sundae. He has dealt with me essentially being completely psychotic for an entire week, and he put himself completely aside to try and make me feel better despite what hell it probably was for him to live with me.

Now, if that's not real love, I don't know what the fuck is. I don't need to have a child to know the meaning of love, nor would I EVER take my husband for granted. Any woman who says that about a human being who has devoted part of their life to them is fucking disgusting and doesn't deserve him. I hope he leaves her ass to take care of the brat on her own.

/end rant.

That being said, Oprah has a BILLION DOLLARS. No one should feel sorry for her. ;l

[KV]

^I hope I find someone who will chase an ice cream truck for me! Now that IS love :)

And it is not about Oprah's money either...although hell that helps! But the experiences she has had. I mean Jesus if I could be one person in the world it would be Oprah. I mean she has LIVED her life well.

xo
Rachel

[Red Ribboned Cub]

Asdsafgfdsjhkg damn you Kari!!!! Now I will have the Mr. Softee song in my head allllll day...Somebody shoot ME! ;)

[Morgan]

Oprah's child is her career.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[iciclespark]

That's on a par with a boy who's drunk as shit but sobers up to hold your hair back, fetch you gravol and tuck you in after bad evil gold tequilla. My boy puts up with a LOT. I adore him.

As for Oprah, I agree with Helen - people en masse cannot fathom the idea of a life fulfilled without the whole sterotypical married with children and a white picket fence. They can't fathom a life that isn't full of children and eventually grandchildren. Most of my friends are fine with my views and choice - some are a little puzzled, but don't think I'm wrong or need convincing. It's similar to depression - some of them can't fathom ever wanting to take their own lives, but I've been there and know very well.

It doesn't help that the US in particular has this determination to define a true/good family as the man and wife and 2.5 kids and a cocker spaniel named Lady. We should be embracing a family as a group of people who love each other as such, related or not, gay or straight, mixed races, whatever.

[madworld]

A story, if you will, and I try not to be like OMGMARRIED all the time, but here's the deal.

I went on Wellbutrin because I wanted to quit smoking, and had a ghastly reaction to it that nearly sent me to the doctor yesterday. My doctor ordered me to take a tranquilizer and get rest, and stop the medication immediately. In my stoned out misery, between sobbing spells and migraine headaches, my husband asked me what I wanted, what would make me feel better. I proclaimed that I wanted a Mister Softee sundae with fudge. Now, this involves the elusive ice cream truck that drives around our neighborhood.

The man went to the store and bought ice cream when he couldn't find the truck. And then, upon returning home, he heard the tinkling music of the truck and RAN after the damn thing, coming back with said sundae. He has dealt with me essentially being completely psychotic for an entire week, and he put himself completely aside to try and make me feel better despite what hell it probably was for him to live with me.

Now, if that's not real love, I don't know what the fuck is. I don't need to have a child to know the meaning of love, nor would I EVER take my husband for granted. Any woman who says that about a human being who has devoted part of their life to them is fucking disgusting and doesn't deserve him. I hope he leaves her ass to take care of the brat on her own.

/end rant.

That being said, Oprah has a BILLION DOLLARS. No one should feel sorry for her. ;l

Excellent post, Kari. And I think it's so, so sweet and precious the way you and your husband love each other so much. You really have the right attitude about marriage! I absolutely agree with you 2000% And I am glad you found such a keeper! [post67]

[Rinky vs.4.0]

As for Oprah, I agree with Helen - people en masse cannot fathom the idea of a life fulfilled without the whole sterotypical married with children and a white picket fence. They can't fathom a life that isn't full of children and eventually grandchildren. .

Or child substitutes. I don't find it that much of a step away from the 'everyone needs children' mentality when anything one does, such as writing novels, having lots of animals about, or working really hard is framed in terms of a substitute for the 'real thing'.

This is why I kind of disagree with 'Oprah's child is her career' statement - I think Oprah's career is her career. She doesn't have a child. She clearly doesn't want a child. And that's ALL RIGHT.

I sometimes get accused of being 'militant' for this - but I really don't understand this need some CF have to justify their non-childed status with a list of things they do IN PLACE of having kids. It's all right not to want or have kids, and it's all right if all you do in life is lie on a beach and drink Tequila Sunrises and be a lazy arse, you know? We don't have to be super-virtuous, workaholics or creative artistes to justify not wanting kids. All we have to do to justify not wanting kids is NOT WANT THEM.

[Pete!]

it's all right if all you do in life is lie on a beach and drink Tequila Sunrises and be a lazy arse

I'm signing up.

[KV]

We don't have to be super-virtuous, workaholics or creative artistes to justify not wanting kids. All we have to do to justify not wanting kids is NOT WANT THEM.


Yes. My mother said to my aunt, "You know A***** a lot of people who do great things do not desire to have children." And I chimed in, "And a lot of people who do NOT do great things do not desire to have children." If you don't want children that does not mean you have to do something amazingly wonderful to fill that...what others would refer to as a.... "void".

xo
Rachel

[Rinky vs.4.0]

I'm signing up.

I never doubted it for a second. :D

[Steve SFM]

All we have to do to justify not wanting kids is NOT WANT THEM.

That could be a slogan for the whole CF movement. *dots*

Oh, and Kari, that was the sweetest story ever ever ever. Unfortunately, I must spread some Reputation around before giving it to you again. [post28]

Oh, and anyone who wants to procreate to fill a "void" needs to have their genitalia confiscated. A child is not spackle, for Chrissakes.

Steve the Sweet Fat Man

[KV]

anyone who wants to procreate to fill a "void" needs to have their genitalia confiscated. A child is not spackle, for Chrissakes.


Unfortunately I think that is most people. And to be honest it does anger me to an extent, but I also feel sympathy for those folks too. I mean my aunt is a beautiful person, but she never EVER felt she was good enough to accomplish anything on her own with the exception of motherhood. Should she have her genitalia confiscated? No. She's a wonderful mother, but also a very misguided human being.

xo
Rachel

[Kari]

Oh, and Kari, that was the sweetest story ever ever ever. Unfortunately, I must spread some Reputation around before giving it to you again. [post28]


Thanks babe. But really, I am the luckiest person alive for marrying him. Really. It's a privilege. It always amazes me that most of the people I know want to marry a man because he has money or would make a good father. When I tell people I married for love, they look at me like I'm insane. Mike doesn't want kids. He made it clear from the start, and I think that I was lucky to find someone who felt the same way as me (though sure, I've had moments of doubt). I just don't understand why another human being becomes a disposable thing in your life just because you had a child. That is totally fucked up.

And Rachel- I'm sure your aunt is a lovely person, as are most people. One of my favorite expressions is "Behind every behavior is a positive intention". No one thinks that they have bad intentions for having a child, people want to have a child to feel good, whether it be to fill a void or whatever. Unfortunately, the child never seems to accomplish the intention, and thus creates a lot of complications later.

[KV]

One of my favorite expressions is "Behind every behavior is a positive intention". .

I really like that Kari :)

Thanks

xo
Rachel

[Boomer #8]

Ah, yes. I say we should pitty those who do have children, and make them worship us like gods for choosing not to overpopulate planet Earth. ;l

And also, what's very annoying is that when I mention that I won't have children, and whoever I'm speaking with answer with 'You're still young....'

[Bitchslaps]

[iciclespark]

And of course you can't win, AnnaB. Once you hit a certain age, the line changes from 'You're still young' to 'OMG you're running out of time. The clock is ticking, you know!' :r