CF= evil and selfish???? [Archive]

Kari

08-01-2006, 12:08 PM

Overheard in the pantry this morning at work, about 10 minutes ago, slightly paraphrased:

Preggers lady: I'm due in October.

Friend: Oh, I hated being pregnant during the summer. So hot and miserable.

PL: I know. I asked my sister to drive me to work this morning so I wouldn't have to walk to the train, but she was too busy doing whatever. I'm so mad.

Friend: Oh. That stinks!

PL: Yeah, I don't think she understands, I mean, like, she doesn't ever want kids, so she has no idea how miserable it is to be pregnant in this heat.

Friend: NEVER??

PL: No. She's almost 40 and she doesn't have any children.

Friend: Well, that explains why she was being so selfish.

PL: I guess, but...

Friend: People who don't have kids don't know the meaning of the word "sacrifice". If she had children, she would have had a better excuse not to take you.

I nearly levitated and smacked the bitch for saying that. What the FUCK????????????

Why is there this assumption that just because we don't care to have children, we are somehow uncaring, selfish, evil people? I mean, we sure get it enough here at the forumz, in real life, and from our families. Now I'm hearing it at work 24/7 as well. What the hell makes people say these things?

People wonder why we always have to defend ourselves. THIS is why.

Charles:

08-01-2006, 12:28 PM

I think a lot of CF people are selfish, but to me, that's fine. There's seems to always be a negative connotation with the word. Being selfish isn't always bad. People need to be selfish sometimes.

Besides, the CF sacrifice a lot...like reproductive rights and having to deal with fuckfaces like the woman you're talking about. Besides, I'm sure a CF person has NEVER had to sacrifice for a parent or another loved one. Cause we all know, sacrificing for a child is the ultimate in martyrdom! Anything aside from that doesn't count.

haunted

08-01-2006, 12:35 PM

just like any group of people there are some that may be such things as selfish, CF isn't immune. but to assume just because they were CF they were being selfish is just moronic.

I would like for this person to meet all the people I've met through dog parks who are childfree. these people care about animals passionately and sacrifice for them on a regular basis, to make sure they have every single thing they need. a lot of them also do a lot of volunteer work and the like in their spare time. yeah, that's REAL selfish.

Steve SFM

08-01-2006, 12:36 PM

And, of course, some parents use their children as excuses to behave in a self-centered, arrogant manner. In other words, selfishness by proxy.

Steve the Sweet Fat Man

jenniferblaufrau

08-01-2006, 01:12 PM

Most people without kids are to some degree selfish, but that's not a bad thing. In fact, the way I see it, it's a great thing. The definition of selfish is "concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others". While I don't think most people without kids fit the "excessively or exclusively" and "without regard for others" bits, I know that for me, the "seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being" part is absolutely true, and I wouldn't want it any other way. As a friend said recently, if everybody in the world really and truly took care of him/herself and spent less time "helping" and meddling in the affairs of others, we'd all be a lot better off. Personally, I find people with a strong sense of self and personal goals and achievement much more interesting than the ones who live to serve (their husband, kids, parents, or whomever).

When people play the "selfish" card, I think it's abundantly clear that what they're really saying is that they're jealous that they don't have the freedom to say no and make decisions that benefit themselves first and foremost. This lady was mad because her sister wasn't going to pick up the slack for her and drive her to work. She refers to her "misery" and suggests that her sister is somehow responsible for alleviating it. I don’t think so.

Rinky vs.4.0

08-01-2006, 01:31 PM

Couldn't PL just call a cab? Maybe her sister had things to do and responsibilities to people that couldn't be put off? Isn't it 'selfish' to demand everyone drops what they're doing to make life easier for you when you can easily sort out the problem yourself?

The irony of someone calling someone else selfish for not revolving their life around them is rather strong, don't you think? Given that certain women, once pregnant, seemingly become supreme narcissists who express interest in nothing but themselves and their pregnancy, and act like nothing and no-one else on this planet is as interesting and important as they are, I feel the irony is really quite strong.

Anyway, everyone is selfish to some degree. Parents are as selfish as anyone else - they just extend their circle of selfishness to their progeny. Plus, as has already been pointed out, when the accusation of selfishness is directed specifically at CF or childless people it is often a not said out of seething resentment and jealousy than anything else, not to mention as a way of directing praise and validation towards themselves.

Rinky vs.4.0

08-01-2006, 01:34 PM

And, of course, some parents use their children as excuses to behave in a self-centered, arrogant manner. In other words, selfishness by proxy.

Of course. Jumping queues, barging in and demanding preferential treatment in various scenarios because "OMG, I HAVE KIDS!" with the implication their time is therefore more precious and their plight more important than anyone else's ... we've all seen that.

Kari

08-01-2006, 01:40 PM

Of course. Jumping queues, barging in and demanding preferential treatment in various scenarios because "OMG, I HAVE KIDS!" with the implication their time is therefore more precious and their plight more important than anyone else's ... we've all seen that.
That's what kills me. What Ms. Preggers in there didn't realize was that she was ALSO being selfish asking her sister to go out of her way to drive her ass somewhere just cause she's with child.

Ironic.

I'm just having a shitty week and been dealing with CF issues at home, at work, and on the forumz, and its just been maddening. I am so happy I just walked away cause I was really ready to say something.

Fox in Socks

08-01-2006, 03:24 PM

When people play the "selfish" card, I think it's abundantly clear that what they're really saying is that they're jealous that they don't have the freedom to say no and make decisions that benefit themselves first and foremost. .indeed. i heard all the shit when everyone at my last job was all breed and adopt happy. how "selfish" i was...how "empty" my life would be....so i laid it on thick when i talked about spontaneously taking a weekend in vegas, or something simple like going to the bookstore for a few hours....then out came the "must be nice" and "i wish i could do that". well you know, you made your choice, i made mine. cant have your cake and eat it too, but i think my cake tastes better, since i can it spontaneously. ;)

i bitched about it at the time and rinky pointed out that misery looooooves company, and wasnt that the truth?

half1113

08-01-2006, 04:29 PM

I don't think the CF are selfish because they don't want children. I didn't know if I wanted them at all.

Breeders can be just as selfish as they accuse CFers of being. It's selfish to have kids when you can't afford it or don't have time for them because of your work hours.

I commend y'all. I was on the fence until Mother Nature decided for me.

Steve SFM

08-01-2006, 04:33 PM

It's certainly selfish - in the negative sense - if you only have a kid to "make yourself feel whole as a person".

Steve the Sweet Fat Man

Rizzabella

08-01-2006, 04:36 PM

Funny, I've thought a lot of people have had very selfish reasons for choosing to have a child in the first place.

If not really wanting a kid in my future makes me selfish then fine! I'm really damn selfish---- and I'll be having far fewer sleepless nights. :)

iciclespark

08-02-2006, 08:12 AM

That's what kills me. What Ms. Preggers in there didn't realize was that she was ALSO being selfish asking her sister to go out of her way to drive her ass somewhere just cause she's with child.

Exactly.

Reminds of a little raging debate in the local paper's letters section over public transit here.

At the front of buses are Priority Seats. These seats are intended to be, as much as possible, for the elderly and disabled - exact words. People started throwing a fuss in letters because people were arguing that the transit drivers should enforce this more and a driver responded that ultimately, during busy times of day, he's a little more concerned with getting everyone safely through traffic and also, the transit drivers are big on avoiding confronttation lately since one got beaten over a fare dispute.

One pregnant woman writes in about how awful transit riders are because they don't all jump up and give her 9 months' preggers ass a seat. Another writes in and wails that drivers should ensure people give up the priority seats for the elderly and pregnant.

And now, I get pissed off. With the odd exceptions, since when did pregnancy become a fucking disability?

First off, unless you have random complications, you are perfectly healthy. Pregnancy is a natural function of the female body. Second, pregnancy ultimately is a choice; being blind/losing a leg to cancer/having a degenerative disease/losing ability to walk due to age is NOT a choice. Third, the big reason why half these women wail about how hard it is to be pregnant is because they fall into that stupid 'eating for two' bullshit and take it as an excuse to eat everything in sight. The actual necessary weight gain for a healthy baby is something like 26 pounds or so. Are you telling me that anyone who gains 26 pounds is disabled? Bullshit. However, if you do go Ziggy Piggy and eat all the time, gaining 60 pounds, then gee, I guess you feel it. But you didn't HAVE to gain that weight.

I also get annoyed by the fact that pregnant women are among those who glare at me to get out of my seat at rush hour because I am young and therefore couldn't possibly have any health issues like, I don't know, a bad back, or arthritis in my knee. Half the time I do get up anyways for the elderly, but seriously, some days, I can't fucking stand any longer.

half1113

08-02-2006, 02:34 PM

Exactly.
First off, unless you have random complications, you are perfectly healthy. Pregnancy is a natural function of the female body. Second, pregnancy ultimately is a choice; being blind/losing a leg to cancer/having a degenerative disease/losing ability to walk due to age is NOT a choice. Third, the big reason why half these women wail about how hard it is to be pregnant is because they fall into that stupid 'eating for two' bullshit and take it as an excuse to eat everything in sight. The actual necessary weight gain for a healthy baby is something like 26 pounds or so. Are you telling me that anyone who gains 26 pounds is disabled? Bullshit. However, if you do go Ziggy Piggy and eat all the time, gaining 60 pounds, then gee, I guess you feel it. But you didn't HAVE to gain that weight.

I go by this rule of thumb

From iVillage:
Weight gain in pregnancy averages 25 to 35 pounds, with first-time moms gaining an average of 27 1/2 pounds. Weight gain will vary, depending on the mother's pre-pregnancy weight. A very thin woman who is below her optimum weight should gain 28 to 40 pounds, while an overweight woman should gain about 15 pounds. About 20 pounds of the weight gained is baby weight: The rest is usually storage of fat.

I'm overweight so I'm trying my hardest to not gain more then 15-20. Eating for two is BS. You are supposed to eat healthier and smaller meals more often.

As a pregnant woman, I think the "Store Parking" at the grocery store is ridiculous. If you are pregnant you need the walking exercise.

iciclespark

08-02-2006, 03:09 PM

I go by this rule of thumb

From iVillage:
Weight gain in pregnancy averages 25 to 35 pounds, with first-time moms gaining an average of 27 1/2 pounds. Weight gain will vary, depending on the mother's pre-pregnancy weight. A very thin woman who is below her optimum weight should gain 28 to 40 pounds, while an overweight woman should gain about 15 pounds. About 20 pounds of the weight gained is baby weight: The rest is usually storage of fat.

I'm overweight so I'm trying my hardest to not gain more then 15-20. Eating for two is BS. You are supposed to eat healthier and smaller meals more often.

As a pregnant woman, I think the "Store Parking" at the grocery store is ridiculous. If you are pregnant you need the walking exercise.

Absolutely!! My mom was up and doing her usual routine until she hit 8 months with my sister, and then she had a miscarriage scare so they ordered her to rest. She'd had issues with her first pregnancy as well, so she wasn't surprised. My mom gained 26 pounds or so with my sister and was back to normal size by about 6 weeks after birth.

Rizzabella

08-02-2006, 04:13 PM

...are among those who glare at me to get out of my seat at rush hour because I am young and therefore couldn't possibly have any health issues like, I don't know, a bad back, or arthritis in my knee. Half the time I do get up anyways for the elderly, but seriously, some days, I can't fucking stand any longer.

I live in SF so I take MUNI everywhere since driving is well-near impossible. It is actually a law (I believe) that people must vacate seats for seniors and for disabled people and typically there's not a big problem with that (occasionally with tourists who are nervous and just want to take the first seats available, but that's understandable to an extent). I've gotten glares from pregnant women before and it is irritating. If someone looks like they're about to burst then yes, I'm going probably going to get up and give you a seat if no one else is because at that point I'm sure it is uncomfortable to stand on a crowded bus. But anyone who is even remotely pregnant will start doing that to me which is hilarious because there's a reason I'm trying to sit on the bus, too: like you I have a horrible back and a knee that's been screwed up since I was little.

Two weeks ago I had the worst cramps I'd ever had (tmi: my PMS is out of control) and was hurting so much I felt like I was going to pass out. Another woman notices my distress and makes room for me to sit next to her. I'm there maybe 5 minutes before a woman who looks a little pregnant gets on and stands next to me. And glares. And glares. And GLARES. Finally after a couple of minutes of this I get mad. She's focusing her attention only on me because I look younger (I'm 24 but am often mistaken for a teenager) and I know it. I look at her and say "I'm not getting up. I am in a ton of pain and I honestly do not care that you are pregnant, you can wait for your own seat. If I stand up much longer, I will pass out and YOU can be the one to carry me off the damn bus if you don't leave me alone."

She moved on to staring at some kids in the very back of the bus instead and one finally relented. Oh, it makes me mad. The world doesn't need to stop turning because you're 4 months pregnant. I understand that some women probably do have complications but don't go to the middle or back part of the bus to get fussy; that's what pissed me off more than anything. I'm sitting in a part I have every right to sit in and you're standing there acting like you're better than I am because you got knocked up!

Steve SFM

08-02-2006, 04:47 PM

^I agree with the above. By some definitions, I'm technically "disabled" (I have a parking placard), but I would stand to give a seat to a hugely pregnant woman. Four months? She can stand.

Steve the Sweet Fat Man

half1113

08-02-2006, 08:55 PM

Absolutely!! My mom was up and doing her usual routine until she hit 8 months with my sister, and then she had a miscarriage scare so they ordered her to rest. She'd had issues with her first pregnancy as well, so she wasn't surprised. My mom gained 26 pounds or so with my sister and was back to normal size by about 6 weeks after birth.

That reminds me of my maternal grandmother. She was already having complications with the twins so she had quite picking cotton. The day she went into labor with them, she finished her canning and then called the midwife. The twins were in the middle of her ten pregnancies.

Heart of Moon

08-03-2006, 03:25 AM

I definitely think people with kids are ridiculously selfish. The whole time I was growing up, my Mom would always (and I mean probably once a day or so) tell me to go get her a glass of water, or move the couch, or make her dinner, or carry all of the groceries out of the store while she sat in her chair. When I would whine, she would say, "Why do you think I had you." She claims she was kidding, but judging by how often she did it, it's clearly true, at least a little bit.

My brother does it to his son, too. I don't think I'm going to have kids because I think I'll have too many habits I picked up from my parents. But then, I'm 19 and will probably change my mind about fifty times before it is actually time for me to have kids.

Rizzabella

08-03-2006, 04:10 AM

I definitely think people with kids are ridiculously selfish. The whole time I was growing up, my Mom would always (and I mean probably once a day or so) tell me to go get her a glass of water, or move the couch, or make her dinner, or carry all of the groceries out of the store while she sat in her chair. When I would whine, she would say, "Why do you think I had you." She claims she was kidding, but judging by how often she did it, it's clearly true, at least a little bit.
Reading stuff like that makes me love my mother more. She's never said something like that to me in her life and if she did she knows my eyes would probably roll right out of my head.

Cam

08-11-2006, 07:44 PM

I'm selfish. Maybe a little bit evil, too. Better I take that out on other adults than my own children though.

halojenn

12-25-2006, 08:37 AM

I think breeders are WAY more selfish than CF. If any breeder truly wanted to give of themselves, they would adopt. And there would not be such an excess of unwanted children to adopt if those who bred them had been thinking of anything but themselves.

Even one child. Why have one? Because they WANT to. And expecting anyone to immediately drop anything to help them is even more selfish.

But the fact is, if one chooses to have a kid, they are also choosing to use up more of earth's resources and burden their friends and family who may or may not want to play a role.

PandaWatch!

12-25-2006, 04:35 PM

^^Wait a minute...Have you been in OIT reading the "how to start a flame war" thread? ;)

And, of course, some parents use their children as excuses to behave in a self-centered, arrogant manner. In other words, selfishness by proxy.

Steve the Sweet Fat Man

Right there is a great point. There are those parents that take advantage of the fact that they have kids. It's just a way to get their own way while out in public, for example. Are those who have children selfish by nature, no I don't think so. Some people are just selfish fucks anyway and have decided to keep passing it along down the family tree. And still others can't understand another person not choosing the same path in life that they have. Goody for all of us.
(Besides, with some of these people, if they weren't using their kids to bully others into bending to their will, they'd use some other excuse.)

And no, being childfree does not make you evil or less of a person. People who think that are just bitter over their own choices or can't see beyond the narrow scope of their own life choices.

andromedaburn

01-29-2007, 03:00 AM

Selfish? You are goddamned right I'm selfish! THAT is one of the reason I don't want to have kids. I have many selfish tendencies that I don't think I could give up if I had a child, and it wouldn't be fair to said offspring.

my2labs

01-29-2007, 12:36 PM

What chaps my arse is that we have front row parking for expectant mothers at our area malls and grocery stores. aren't these women suppose to get exercise while they are pregnant? so wouldn't it only be right to put their parking all the way out to the last spaces?

Framedanddry

01-30-2007, 12:13 AM

When people make comments about how selfish a childfree existance is I simply reply " No, selfish is having kids purely as fashion accessories, how is the three wheeled pram these days - planning on Mount Everest with little Jimmy are you?" .

It irritates me to death that childfree people are judged but there are so many cases of abuse and neglect that social services are often overwhelmed. I think those who lecture others about children really need to take a look at how and why some people choose to procreate.

Trapper

02-01-2007, 03:08 AM

I agree they are really selfish

Foxgloves

02-05-2007, 06:38 PM

Autumn

02-06-2007, 04:38 PM

I think it is more selfish to go through all the trouble of giving birth to your own blood child, for selfish reasons, rather than adopting one that needs a home. People want to look into their childs face and see their own, and that's what it's all about.

Wait, we'rent you just going on about having a kid in another thread to "leave a legacy" or some bullshit? Didn't you just say you wanted to go through the trouble of having a kid just to have someone to hold your hand when you die?

PandaWatch!

02-06-2007, 04:43 PM

^^Uh-oh. Busted.

nikkiana

02-20-2007, 04:20 AM

From my experience, all humans are selfish regardless of whether they're CF or a breeder. :P

hollerskates

03-06-2007, 11:29 PM

ok, i didn't really know where to put this. it's more of a "some parents are assholes" kind of thing, rather than a strictly childfree situation. i needed you guys today. i needed your quick insults and your piercing comebacks. i was babysitting today. today is ballet day, and after ballet, caitlyn(6) and i walked down to the playground at the Y. there are tons of kids there. all ages. i just let caitlyn do her thing while i watch and make sure she doesn't break an arm. i think that's ok. i don't think i'm required to run around like a 5 year old on a playground built for children. i don't ignore her or talk on my cell phone, but i don't play either. it's not her backyard. ok, so today, we're at the playground. kids running amuck. 2 kids in particular and their mom. these kids had to be around 10 and 12. they were playing tag with their mom on one of those gigantic slide, plastic rock-wall, bridge type jungle gyms. i'm talking hooting and hollering, running and jumping like crazy all over the place. so much so, that most of the other kids were standing back and watching. caitlyn was standing on the bridge almost afraid to move but also amused. i noticed the mom kept looking over at me, and then in mid-jump onto the bridge she very loudly asked caitlyn...

mom: "where's your mommy?"
caitlyn: "she's at home."
mom: "so, who brought you?"
caitlyn: "my babysitter."
mom: "where is she?"
caitlyn: *points to me*
mom: (hands on hips like fucking richard simmons, looking at me) "ohhhh, someone's sitting down on the job! you need to get up here like me!! if i have to run around here, then so do you!!"

i don't even remember what i was able to say to her, but she continued to stare at me as she lept from level to level on the jungle gym. i was just dumbfounded. i wanted to claw her fucking eyes out, but children were present. so, i just took it like a bitch.

Heart of Moon

03-06-2007, 11:31 PM

^That's so rude!

hollerskates

03-06-2007, 11:40 PM

i know! i shouldn't let it get to me because i know i'm allowed to maintain my adult status on a playground. i'm not an activities coordinator for the YMCA. but she wanted me to feel guilty and selfish. if i do feel guilty, well, then that's on me, but christ. step off, mom of the year.

if only i had crumpets in my bag!

jeth

03-07-2007, 12:09 AM

I hope that bridge has a weight limit and her stupid ass goes tumbling off of it very soon.

She's probably the kind of mom who wants to be her kids' best friend too. Fat lot of good that's going to do her when it's time to actually discipline her children.

Cam

03-07-2007, 10:39 AM

She's probably the kind of mom who wants to be her kids' best friend too. Fat lot of good that's going to do her when it's time to actually discipline her children.
Yep, just ask my sister-in-law. That's her exactly. She's the kind of person afraid to discipline her kids because they learned early on that threats to call CPS would get her to back down.

You know, rather than telling them to go ahead and see how they like living in foster care.

Rizzabella

03-07-2007, 06:10 PM

i don't even remember what i was able to say to her, but she continued to stare at me as she lept from level to level on the jungle gym. i was just dumbfounded. i wanted to claw her fucking eyes out, but children were present. so, i just took it like a bitch.
:r

Some kids don't WANT to have to be bugged by adults constantly. I would have hated the babysitter who had to play along with everything I did since I was a pretty solitary child.

toriwannabe

03-07-2007, 07:38 PM

I'm pretty sure the playground equipment wasn't designed to accommodate the weight of big-arse adults. I mean, have you seen the size of the swing seats? And I've seen many a funny home video of an adult getting stuck on the slide. And if the other kids are NOT going on the equipment because the mother is there, she really needs to be told to get off. What if you were on there too? Two adults on children's equipment? Not safe.

Maybe you could find out from the council and get them to erect a sign indicating who is/isn't allowed on the equipment.