Do you think this an idea that will work?

[mydaddyspodcast]

My daughter just turned 3 and we have a hard time getting her into her bed. She has to sleep with mommy and Daddy in their bed. My daughter loves to watch TV and especially Dora movies. We were thinking of getting her a TV that she can watch in her bed and then hopefully fall asleep. This is strictly at night. We do not plan on making her a couch potato and rotting her brain with TV. That's the last thing we both want for her.

[courey]

My main issues with that idea is that she could possibly pull the tv down on top of her, play with the power cord, as well as the plan actually backfiring and her keeping herself awake in order to watch tv. I don't think it's a great idea to have her become dependant upon the tv in order to fall asleep; it's not really teaching her any self-coping skills and how to fall asleep on her own. I have a son that just turned three last month, and a daughter who just turned four the month before last; they share a room, and neither are too keen on going to sleep at night, most nights. We have a mobile in their room still that plays music as well as projects the characters onto the wall and ceiling [I found a link; this is the one we have: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2629945, which they aren't in danger of pulling down or being hurt by. It provides enough stimulation to keep their attention, but is soothing enough to not overstimulate and keep them awake. They also each have a magna-doodle in their beds, which they're allowed to draw on, but this is usually only at naptime, since it's too dark during the night to be able to see it well. Does she have a nightlight? I guess the important part is establishing a routine and sticking with it; if it's time for your daughter to sleep in her own bed, then you need to keep putting her there. It will be frustrating for all of you for a while, but she will eventually accept that she needs to sleep on her own.

[PandaWatch!]

At my house right now bedtime is a war. My son is going on 3 and just doesn't want to go down. We just do his nighttime routine and put him in his room. If he needs to scream for a little while, so be it. It's tough and very frustrating, but the key is to be consistant and don't be afraid of letting your child cry it out for a bit. It's a tough age, but the more firm you are the better off your child will be in the long run. It's great to have this place to bounce ideas off one another! Remember, none of us are perfect and every child is different. You'll find something that works.

Peace,
WindySky

BTW, I really like that mobile idea, courey!

[PotatoFace]

But the thing is at 3 years old they don't understand what you are trying to do. Letting them scream like that shows them nothing, it isnt productive in anyway. It just wears them out until they are soo exhausted and desperate their body shuts down and they go to sleep.

[bear]

Personally I am not a fan of tvs in the bedroom. For anyone in our house, myself included. The tv is a community element in our house. My thought is having a tv in a bedroom removes some of the control I have over what my child may watch and also encourages retreat and seclusion to occur more often. I have nothing against my kids needing some space and going to their rooms but a tv does not need to be there enticing them to stay.

My son, while never having slept with my husband and I, was incredibly difficult to get settled. We had to establish a bedtime routine and work really hard to stick to it. Books, back rubbing and music. It took time and he still got up often but eventually it worked. There were also certainly times when we let him cry. Not to hysterics but when you are frustrated it is best sometimes to take 10 and let them try to work it out.

I also think initially it may help if you lay with her in her bed for a bit until she falls asleep. Establish rules like no talking, etc. and hang out for a bit. Maybe buy a Dora music cd since she likes Dora.

Good luck! I know it is frustrating!

[PandaWatch!]

But the thing is at 3 years old they don't understand what you are trying to do. Letting them scream like that shows them nothing, it isnt productive in anyway. It just wears them out until they are soo exhausted and desperate their body shuts down and they go to sleep.

I didn't mean let them scream for an hour. With my son at least, he'll scream for a minute, realize it's bedtime and settle down. Yes, some nights are worse than others, but he does realize fairly quickly what's going on. With my little guy it seems to be a ploy for more mommy/daddy time (which we're happy to give him but bedtime is bedtime). Going back in there every five seconds only reinforces that behavior. Personally, I don't think letting a child cry for a short amount of time is harmful. He knows we're right outside and we tell him so.

[courey]

But the thing is at 3 years old they don't understand what you are trying to do. Letting them scream like that shows them nothing, it isnt productive in anyway. It just wears them out until they are soo exhausted and desperate their body shuts down and they go to sleep.

I don't agree with that at all; a three year old definitely is capable of reason and understanding. They are perfectly aware of cause and effect [something kids start learning in infancy], and know how to try to manipulate a situation to get what they want. I also don't agree that "their body shuts down"; yeah, they may wear themselves out, but they also learn that screaming doesn't work to get their way. It may not work for you personally, but painting this method into oh, the poor kid's desperate and his body can't handle it, and "it isn't productive in any" way, is just not correct.

[FaerieDreamer]

My son is 3 right now as well. He's always somewhat difficult bedtimes. What is your bedtime routine like?

For us, we start w/ a bath, teeth and hair brushing. Then we sit and read a couple of books in the rocking chair, and have a cup of water or diluted juice. After the books we go lay down in his bed. I usually will sit at the foot of his bed, until he falls asleep. Sometimes it takes a while, but usually it's no more than about 15minutes. The trick is ignoring him if he starts getting restless. Our whole process takes about an hour, but it's what works for us.


and I do have to agree w/ Windy Sky and Courey on this one. At 3, heck even at 2, kids have a fairly good grasp of cause and effect and how to manipulate their environment to get what they want. CIO may or may not be the best method for an infant, but a toddler can definitely be left alone with their tantrums for a while.

[PandaWatch!]

^^Thanks, you 2 up there. And yes, children are different and there are different parenting methods. Different does not mean wrong. This is just an age where these little ones are learning manipulation. In my situation this is definitely the case!

Peace,
Windy~Sky [post100]

[PotatoFace]

I don't agree with that at all; a three year old definitely is capable of reason and understanding. They are perfectly aware of cause and effect [something kids start learning in infancy], and know how to try to manipulate a situation to get what they want. I also don't agree that "their body shuts down"; yeah, they may wear themselves out, but they also learn that screaming doesn't work to get their way. It may not work for you personally, but painting this method into oh, the poor kid's desperate and his body can't handle it, and "it isn't productive in any" way, is just not correct.



Of course a 3 year old understands cause and effect, hell my year old understands that. But they don't understand the meaning behind it. You can reason with a 3 year old to a point, but their mind is still in fantasty land basically. They don't understand "real" consequences. The only reason they know when bedtime is, is because of a routine that has been established for them. You have to teach it to them.

Crying is a part of having a baby. Madeleine cries a lot now, because she can't get what she wants. But being allowed to scream their heads off until hysterics is a different story. That is what I am talking about, and that is what CIO is. She said Crying it out, but wasn't talking about the actual crying it out method. It was a misunderstanding.

A baby/child left to scream itself into hysterics and finally falling asleep is not learning that they won't get what they want. It doesn't teach a child coping skills, it tells them that when they need their parents(and yes at a young age it is STILL a need) they aren't there. Lots of children that age have huge imaginations and need consolment a lot of the time. Leaving them to scream is not helping.

I have times where I fight with Madeleine to go to sleep. Sure, she cries. But she is never put in her room by herself and left to cry. I wouldn't even to that to her at 3.

[courey]

Save the condescention for someone else, Kristen. I've had three kids, I'm pretty sure I know by now what raising them is like. Three year olds can and do understand real consequences and they do learn coping skills through things that make them uncomfortable [otherwise, why would they need them to begin with?]. I'm not advocating letting a child scream their lungs out, and neither was anyone else in this thread; in fact, you're the one that brought it up.

If he needs to scream for a little while, so be it. It's tough and very frustrating, but the key is to be consistant and don't be afraid of letting your child cry it out for a bit.

This is what was said that made you go off into My Word Is Gospel mode. Again. Now you're just spitting back what was already said by everyone else. This routine of yours is an excersize in futility, and I wish you'd just get a grip and stop having to be "right" all of the time.

I'm asking you nicely, for the last time; stop dictating how people should raise their children. There are methods that you don't agree with; we all get that. People are perfectly capable of making their own decisions and choices and should be able to do so without fear of having you breathing down their necks.

[Julie]

Please listen to Courey-- any further disruption will result in being banned from PP.

[Rose Bud]

We've had spurts of this from our almost 3 year old. Most of the time he goes down for bed with no protest but there are other times that he makes himself scream and cry about it. (He's almost 3, I can tell the difference between the real cries and the fake ones, mm'kay?) The times he does cry about it, we just let him for a few minutes. Some times he'll stop after a couple minutes and go to sleep because he is tired and figures that he didn't get to stay up so it's time to sleep. The times it does last longer than a couple minutes, either my husband or I will go in to his bedroom to calm him down, and then remind him that it's time to go to sleep. That usually works, too even if we do have to do it a couple times.

Ohh, and a 3 year old won't get the meaning of why you're doing that the first time, but eventually with repetition they will. Why else would teaching our kids not to throw tantrums to get what they want be so important? Because they have to LEARN to deal with things. They don't just magically understand it the first time.

But anyway--one of the things that seemed to help reduce the protesting bedtime was buying sheet sets of characters that Nicholas likes. My huband bought a Cars sheet set for Nicholas's bed not too long ago. I asked if Nicholas wanted the sheets on his bed and he told me YES and that night, he willingly went to bed w/o being told it's bedtime! So to the original poster, perhaps letting your daughter pick out some dora sheets and such for her bed may help? Worked for us!

[entropy]

A lot your bedtime troubles sound pretty much bedtime at our house too! My little on is two years 4 months. we give her a bath, she takes her medicine, brusth teeth, reads two stories, say good night and we walk out of the room. we sit down behind the cracked door. and every single night she fusses (i refuse to say the word cry for what she's doing) gets out of bed, walks to the door, we point at the bed and say gentle yet firmly that she needs to get back into the bed. she walks quietly back to her bed and that's that. sometimes she'll do it twice, maybe three times. but i refuse to fight with her to sleep. if i don't fight, give in, etc there isnt much of a battle. there is time to let kids have leeway, but bedtime isn't one of them in our house.

[ej]

We have a bedtime routine, but we have to switch certain things up every now and again to keep the "excitement" of going to bed fresh. Our latest change is a music cd that I burned for our five year old. It's got a bunch of songs that she chose, so she gets to listen to it quietly in bed after story time. It helps to keep her in her bedroom instead of wandering down to see us every thirty seconds or less.

[PotatoFace]

Please listen to Courey-- any further disruption will result in being banned from PP.


go ahead and ban me.

Nothing I said was inflammatory, nothing I said was condesending. I stated my opinion, she stated hers. Just because she happens to not agree with me I am being singled out. Ohh please. What about coureys "been there done that" attitude and the way that she singles out every fucking thing I say? And now her being a mod just lets her justify it even more because she can get me banned now. Please.

You don't like that I express my opinion, then ban me from the whole fucking forumz, because I will not and i repeat WILL NOT CHANGE ANY OPINION OF MINE BECAUSE IT DOESNT APPEAL TO YOU.

Save the condescention for someone else, Kristen. I've had three kids, I'm pretty sure I know by now what raising them is like.
Hmm, so now you are the authority on this because you have had three kids and you know? Who's condesending now?

[PandaWatch!]

Awww, man. And I just popped some popcorn, too!

[FaerieDreamer]

Of course a 3 year old understands cause and effect, hell my year old understands that. But they don't understand the meaning behind it. You can reason with a 3 year old to a point, but their mind is still in fantasty land basically. They don't understand "real" consequences. The only reason they know when bedtime is, is because of a routine that has been established for them. You have to teach it to them.



Again, I think I'm late to the party. But I just want to respond to this.

I think you are underestimating the cognitive abilities of older toddlers. They most definitely understand the meaning behind what you are telling them and you can reason with them. Their minds are not in fantasy land, an overactive imagination sure. But toddlers are not infants. They have their own personalities and opinions and can easily make up their own minds as to what they want and do not want. That's where tantrums come from in the first place.

And please, do not tell me that the only reason my son knows when it's bedtime is because we've established a routine for him. He knows it's bedtime because his body is telling him he's tired. If he didn't understand and be able to know his own feelings, then why would he more often than not, be able to tell me when he's ready for bed?

again, I just think you are not giving kids enough credit.

[iciclespark]

I have to agree with the above. I used to watch a 6 year-old and a 3 year-old all summer. That little one definitely understood what punishment was. When she was being bad, she'd be put in her room for time out for a good ten minutes, or until she'd stopped trying to escape/stopped screaming for at least 3 minutes. I'd then enter again, and we'd talk about why she was put in time-out. She got it.

Simlarly, when I'd ask her not to do something, eg run off in a store ahead of me, and explain it was "because if I can't see you, bad people can hurt you", she understood and stopped doing it.

Also, if my sister, without any prompting from myself or my mother, knew enough not to sing the word Bitch in the song by that name by Meredith Brooks, and would sing every other word perfectly, exchanging bitch for witch, come on. Kids are smarter than you make them out to be. I was reading at 3.

[Ryoko!]

okay. back to the original question folks.
T.V. for bedtime, good idea or bad one?
not a GREAT idea, but not the worst either.

I let Logan watch t.v. in his room before he goes to sleep. Sometimes he falls to sleep before the T.V gets turned off... sometimes I just leave the thing on till he passes out. It will NOT solve all of your bedtime problems, as even my 3 year old still gets up every now and then. he doesn't watch cable (in fact i don't even have cable or any other type of broadcast t.v. in my house) and he ONLY gets to watch T.V. at bedtime. He loves Dora and Little Einsteins so for him going to bed is more of treat than anything else.

We also read to him every day, play puzzles with him everyday, and sit down and a meal together as a family everyday.

It's moderation, just becuase you say "screw it" every once in awhile and let them have something that some "child experts" would frown on doesn't make you satan parent.

now if you beat your kid to sleep on the other hand...
;)

[jasminemom]

Hi, I'm fairly new here - just want to add my opinion.

My daugther Jasmine who is now 3, was very difficult to put to bed. It was a struggle putting her to sleep during her infancy times, she could even awake until 2 AM!. She was not sleeping thru the night until she was 1.5, and she STILLS wakes up couples of times now. But she's getting better and better.

Just like everyone else, we build a bedtime routine, brush her teeth, put on her PJs, read bedtime stories. She still co-sleeps with us, and we have TV in our bedroom. She is allowed to watch Disney Channel until 1 hour maximum (we set the TV to turn itself off ater 1 hour), and if she's still awake, she knows that she should close her eyes when the TV is off.

I know that sometimes it's very hard to deal with it, because we're already tired and she still gets this whole energy to play and how we are tempted to yell at her or let her cry it out. We just need to be patient, patient, and patient.

And, oh yeah, at 3, she does understand everything we are telling her and she does understand consequences, cause and effect, etc. Before I had a child, I always underestimated children, but now, I keep saying to my husband: Kids are actually smarter than we thought. :)

[bellegurl]

I may be one of the last people on earth to say this, but I have never liked the idea of a TV in a child's bedroom. For a 3 year-old, bedtime always makes the house look like a war zone, but this, too, shall pass. Try some reading in bed, give her a little fish tank to make her room more interesting to her, etc. And, as I said, as she grows, bedtime will become a time of peace. Best of luck to you!!