it annoys me when people bring up the mcdonalds coffee case

**Rebecca** · 08-27-2002, 05:13 PM

It seems like folks bring up the McDonalds coffee case all the time as an example of how ridiculous the legal system has gotten. Well I'm not going to argue if the legal system is ridiculous or not, but that particular case isn't.

The issue at hand is that McDonalds kept their coffee EXTRA hot. Hotter than at other establishments, and far hotter (50 degrees) than coffee at home. Hot enough to cause near-instant destruction of skin & muscle. Customers can be expected to assume that coffee is hot and will hurt if spilled, but not to assume that it is HOTTER than normal and will seriously hurt you when normally the burns would be minor. There had been numerous scalding incidents in the past with McDonalds inspectors that had been quietly settled. Safety inspectors had warned that the temperature the coffee was kept at would seriously hurt people. Yet McDonalds continued to keep the coffee so hot for "optimal taste", never bothering to warn customers of the extra risk.

What really gets me is the vilification of this woman as a greedy abuser of the system. All she wanted was her medical costs ($20,000) covered which McDonalds refused to do. This woman suffered 3rd degree burns all over her crotch area and was in the hospital for eight days.

A lot of people are outraged by the 2million dollar award to the woman (which was later reduced) but this award was necessary for there to be a punitive effect on mcdonalds. Corporations regularly incorparate settlements and monetary compensation for wrongs into the cost of doing business, so courts choose to make huge awards to ensure that corporations actually change their way of doing business. Personally, I think if punitive damages are in order than it would be better that the case go to criminal court for that, but our criminal courts are bogged down enough as it is.

read more: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

ShootToKill · 08-27-2002, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rebecca
All she wanted was her medical costs ($20,000) covered which McDonalds refused to do. This woman suffered 3rd degree burns all over her crotch area and was in the hospital for eight days.

im so glad i live in Canada with free health insurance. If i had to spend 20, 000 because of a coffee burn, i'd probably have to file for bankruptcy.

**Martin** · 08-27-2002, 05:41 PM

So, if I come to Erica's house Saturday to cook, and her knives are sharper than I expect to find in my drawers at home, and I cut off my finger through my own stupidity, I can rightfully exdect her family to pay my medical bill, plus compensatory damages for pain and suffering?
The woman stuck a styrofoam cup between her legs and drove with it there. That's pure stupidity, nothing more, nothing less.

As for it being hotter than a person can reasonably expect, McDonald's coffee is served between 185 and 195 degrees, as is coffee in all fast food and coffee houses. This is considered to be the optimum temperature for coffee. Just because it's hotter than a cheap-ass Mr. Coffee pot makes doesn't make it the wrong temperature.

If I were McDonald's, I would have told her to stick her medical bills up her ass, too.

**Rebecca** · 08-27-2002, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin
So, if I come to Erica's house Saturday to cook, and her knives are sharper than I expect to find in my drawers at home, and I cut off my finger through my own stupidity, I can rightfully exdect her family to pay my medical bill, plus compensatory damages for pain and suffering?
The woman stuck a styrofoam cup between her legs and drove with it there. That's pure stupidity, nothing more, nothing less.

As for it being hotter than a person can reasonably expect, McDonald's coffee is served between 185 and 195 degrees, as is coffee in all fast food and coffee houses. This is considered to be the optimum temperature for coffee. Just because it's hotter than a cheap-ass Mr. Coffee pot makes doesn't make it the wrong temperature.

If I were McDonald's, I would have told her to stick her medical bills up her ass, too.

Actually the car was stopped and she was in the passengers seat... oh and the court did find her 20% culpable.

McDonalds kept their coffee about 20 degrees hotter than industry standard... and customers are just supposed to magically know that? The real issue is that McDonalds was aware of the danger (there had already been about 700 burn cases, plus requests from hospitals to reduce temps) but they chose not to do anything about it. That should not be okay and I agree with the judge who found "McDonald's conduct reckless, callous and willful."

**Rebecca** · 08-27-2002, 05:49 PM

"A McDonald's quality assurance manager testified in the case that the Corporation was aware of the risk of serving dangerously hot coffee and had no plans to either turn down the heat or to post warning about the possibility of severe burns, even though most customers wouldn't think it was possible."

MTC · 08-27-2002, 05:52 PM

Where would you transport your coffee if your car didn't come equipped with a cup holder? Not all cars, especially older ones, have cup holders.

Anyway I see Rebecca is making the points I was going to, so I'll stop here.

bratboy · 08-27-2002, 06:21 PM

I agree with rebecca here...I'm sick of hearing about it, and the coffee was, well....really fucking hot.

**Martin** · 08-27-2002, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rebecca
McDonalds kept their coffee about 20 degrees hotter than industry standard... and customers are just supposed to magically know that? The real issue is that McDonalds was aware of the danger (there had already been about 700 burn cases, plus requests from hospitals to reduce temps) but they chose not to do anything about it. That should not be okay and I agree with the judge who found "McDonald's conduct reckless, callous and willful."

Go to any Starbucks or honolulu Coffee Company and look on the coffee urns. There is a digital thermometer there. It consistently reads ~190 degrees. I would say that Starbucks has pretty much become the industry standard for coffee. Read any book written for coffee lovers. It will tell you that maximum flavor is achieved if the coffee is maintained at 185-195 degrees.
And it wasn't the court, but the Jury that found her 20% culpable.

Regardless of who was to blame, $2.7mil for something that happened largely as a result of personal stupidity is still a fine example to hold up as an example of our civil legal system gone awry. The fact that they eventually settled for a lesser amount is not the issue. The fact that 12 people not smart enough to get out of jury duty make such ridiculous awards in the first place is.

twelvefoot · 08-27-2002, 06:43 PM

my old boss, actually did business with the law firm that handled the macdonalds case...
and before he told me what exactly happened to the lady i thought it was extremely outlandish

but apparently

the health department had warned, and cited that exact macdonalds like a month before the woman burned herself..and that she had been burned by the coffee before.....also she supposively had 3rd degree burns in her pubic area from the coffee, and needed cosmetic surgery to fix the damage from the hot coffee..
now that's all heresay..but if it's true i think she had more then enough right to sue the shit out of them...

Paladin · 08-27-2002, 06:44 PM

Hehe. Boy, Rebecca, you're on quite a rant streak here...

I think the McDonald's coffe suit is brought up so often as a symbol of litigation run amok because it is the perfect example. It's another case of someone wanting to blame someone else for their own misfortune or carelessness.

This case has been discusssed here before, and the point is always brought up that McDonald's was uncooperative. But the question that bears asking is, why did she go to McDonald's in the first place? Why did she look to them at all for restitution of her medical bills?

It's also often stated that the coffee was extra hot. But coffee is supposed to be hot! For a reasonable person, that requires using extra caution. But for a litigious bitch like this, I guess all it requires is recognizing a golden opportunity.

sharpie pen · 08-27-2002, 07:00 PM

Coffee still isn't something you'd want to use to exfoliate your crotch with. Coffee is hot and why you would put it on your crotch in a vehicle? Even my car manual tells me not to do that.

bratboy · 08-27-2002, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paladin
But for a litigious bitch like this, I guess all it requires is recognizing a golden opportunity.

wasn't she like 92 or some shit.

AsslessFace · 08-27-2002, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paladin
It's also often stated that the coffee was extra hot. But coffee is supposed to be hot! For a reasonable person, that requires using extra caution. But for a litigious bitch like this, I guess all it requires is recognizing a golden opportunity.

Paladin, have you been brainwashed by the big corporations that don't want to be held accountable? Did you not read the details in Rebecca's and Twelvefoot's posts? Are you so insensitive to the fact that poor woman was seriously injured by not just normally hot coffee, but exceedingly hot coffee that even the health department had warned that same McDonalds about a month before? Are you such an asshole that you can call that poor woman a "litigious bitch" when all she had asked for was compensation of $20,000 medical bills? Are you so "duh" about all this that you don't realize it was those who heard the details of this case who awarded her far more than she had asked for to wake up McDonalds to their neligence with severe punitive penalties? Are you so asleep at the wheel that you are prepared to buy the distorted stories of suit abuse so that YOUR right to get compensation for real damages will be severely limited in favor of those powerful interests who'd rather not be concerned with you getting in the way of their profits?

GEEEEEZE, Paladin. *Knock, knock* Hello?

bratboy · 08-27-2002, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin
So, if I come to Erica's house Saturday to cook, and her knives are sharper than I expect to find in my drawers at home, and I cut off my finger through my own stupidity, I can rightfully exdect her family to pay my medical bill, plus compensatory damages for pain and suffering?

Erica is not mcdonalds. Does it really bother you that McDonalds had to pay so much?

**Martin** · 08-27-2002, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bratboy420
Erica is not mcdonalds. Does it really bother you that McDonalds had to pay so much?

It bothers me that anyone would have to pay anything for someone else's stupidity.

Why does it matter if Erica is an individual or a corporation? Shouldn't she be held to the same standard of accountability?