Carbon--chemistry references and skiiing...

theta · 11-03-2002, 03:42 PM

in the beginning she says, "found her at the end of her chain," which brings us to a chemical level and carbon chains. manic-depressive illness effects the chemistry in the brain, so i think it makes beautiful sense to relate the character to chemistry. also, "double-diamond time," while obviously a reference to skiing, gives me the image of the carbon chains in diamond shapes...which i think they are. chemists out there?

we have the lithium reference, and the diving up and down of ski slopes for maybe the feelings of mania and depression...i think the blades are important...suicidal thoughts?

weird pun on words, "loons can dive?"

why "snow glass apples"? i just read it...and i am still thinking about this.

more later. let's talk about carbon!

**swirly** · 11-03-2002, 06:07 PM

"Carbon made found her at the end of a chain"

Very clever, both skiing chains and diamond chains (diamonds being a form of carbon)

And the carbon idea of becoming nothing, obliterating yourself back to the elemental level so you no longer exist as a person...

Carbon, I also think of black coal, black moods, charcoal, dark, depressive...

Blade to ice: like cutting a diamond, ice being a slang term for diamonds...

crystalline irises: bright and crystalline, like diamonds...

Snow Glass Apples: not read it but I'd presume it's because of the imagery it conjures...snow, glass, transparent, crystal, icey...

Skimming it I see Snow White imagery, again in keeping with the theme...

And this quote:

I will not scream. I will not give them that satisfaction. They will have my body, but my soul and my story are my own, and will die with me.

It's like the people chipping away at Carbon, diminishng her brightness, but she keeps her own story within her...

xxx

blood on my hands · 11-03-2002, 06:31 PM

"little sis you must crack this"
he says to me
"you must go in again
carbon made only wants to be unmade"
blade to ice
it's double diamond time

it seems to me that neil here is talking about the character of carbon herself. like, for a moment, tori sings in her own voice, rather than scarlet's, and neil is there trying to help her. he's saying she has to go back inside carbon's head, try and crack the secret of her character, because even though tori has made her, she wants to be unmade.

blade to ice refers back to the beginning, where carbon herself says it time to race the downhill. ski blades to the ice, tori's going to do the double diamond run (anybody have an idea what level of difficulty that would be?), in an attempt to understand who carbon is.

theta · 11-03-2002, 09:25 PM

"Snow Glass Apples" where nothing is as it seems

This story is neat b/c it takes the story of Snow White and tells it from the Stepmother's point of view, making the stepmother a martyr and snow white a vampyric evil thing.

also, yes, there is a lot of snow and winter imagery in both.

so, in my mind, carbon is really a diamond, not coal, and nobody can see that. "where nothing is as it seems"

as for double diamonds...black diamond is up there as one of the harder slopes, isn't it? so...would double diamond be past that in difficulty?

i think this song is genius. so many lines can be interpreted in different ways.

"her mind cut in sheets" also sounds like the diamond ice-cutting.

anyone else think the irises are her eyes?

long taxi ride · 11-03-2002, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theta
as for double diamonds...black diamond is up there as one of the harder slopes, isn't it? so...would double diamond be past that in difficulty?

double diamond slopes are the HAAAAARD (experts only!). when you go skiing a lot of times they don't talk in terms of color, esp for the harder slopes, just in terms of how many diamonds. or that was at least my experience skiing in taos.

um. you are neat.

**Elkie Toofan** · 11-04-2002, 08:23 AM

I'm a Chemist! I'm a Chemist! And I agree with everything that has been said! My only grievance is that I wanted to make a thread about this first!

And I think the Irises are her eyes. Like there set and fixed because of the medication she's on for her illnesses.

It's very difficult to cut diamond. Diamond can cut through glass.

Actually, with the chain lyric, I was thinking of how we are made up of DNA, and one of the most prominent elements in DNA is carbon. DNA is a chain (a double helix of chains of nucleotides) - I thought the "carbon made only wants to be unmade" referred to the character wanting to tear herself apart, to unwind her whole body into non-existance.

I love this song.

And though I hate to say this, you could do a really mean Riverdance to it.

**swirly** · 11-04-2002, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theta
[B
so, in my mind, carbon is really a diamond, not coal, and nobody can see that. "where nothing is as it seems"
[/b]

I didn't say she was coal, as she's the ice under the blade, but that the dark references are there...i used the imagery of black coal to refer to her personality and psyche, not mention of her appearance...she is described as a manic depressive by Tori...

And yes irises are the coloured part of the eye, so I think there's no doubt what that line refers to...he's are crystal clear, shining like diamonds, as though you can see through them..although her eyes shine, there's a darkness behind them...

Could be a Stargate reference but I doubt it!

xxx

**Elkie Toofan** · 11-05-2002, 07:49 AM

Found another carbon reference!
Graphite, which you find in pencil leads, consisted of layers of carbons arranged in hexagons on top of one another. They're a bit like metal: they're are held together by a sea of electrons which flows between the layers - kind of like glue holding them together.

"Her Mind cut
in sheets
Layers Deep
now unravelling"

I can't find anything to do with buckyballs though...

theta · 11-05-2002, 09:43 AM

Quote:

I didn't say she was coal, as she's the ice under the blade, but that the dark references are there...

sorry, i didn't mean to imply that. i just meant that nobody around carbon sees that she's a beautiful person

Jim · 11-06-2002, 07:34 PM

after reading all these posts, I really like the song a lot more.

<i>blade to ice
it's double diamond time</i>

Tori mentioned somewhere that Carbon is suicidal. "blade to ice" to me sounds like it has something to do with self-mutilation, and after that, "it's double diamond time", (the most difficult ski slope there is), meaning the situation just got VERY serious.

what a SONG!!!

theta · 11-07-2002, 01:58 AM

yeah, i definitely see a knife at her arm. and "ice" to me can mean that she feels dead already, if that makes any sense. cold, chilled veins...

it gives me chills...

i hope that made sense.

god i love this song.

any comments on the world bleeding white? i get an interesting image there, but i can't place it...

i dig the DNA, SW.

blood on my hands · 11-07-2002, 12:39 PM

Quote:

any comments on the world bleeding white?

snow. goes with the whole skiing thing.

theta · 11-07-2002, 01:31 PM

well, yes, snow makes sense. i was wondering though if anyone got any further meaning out of this? i mean, not every line has to be dissected ad nauseum, of course, but it sticks out to me and i am curious...

long taxi ride · 11-08-2002, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theta

any comments on the world bleeding white?

yeah, snow.

or lithium. whatever

andy · 11-09-2002, 10:05 AM

So Ill try my best with my brief knoledege of chemistry.

"Carbon-made, found her at the end of a chain..." Quite right, carbon forms chains when it reacts. Diamonds are near impossible to break in fact. Lead, coal and diamand are the three main forms of carbon. Lead, as in lead of a pencil, not real led consists of layers which slide across one another and she does mention layers later. Carbon is a reactive element and its difficult to find pure carbon that hasnt reacted- carbon dioxide and monoxide take up most of it- so basically- carbom-made is pure carbon, which will react with oxygen or anything it can find to become 'unmade.'
Lithium is another reactive element that burns bright, not to mention a drug used by depressed people. I mean an anti depressive.

Oh!! and the best carbon related reference is when you want to cut a diamond you have to use a technique called "Cat Cracking" which is seperting carbon from it's self- so when Neil says "you must crack this" it means more than solve it- it means you must keep carbon as carbon- do not let her be 'unmade.'

Almost every word in this song has a connotation. I love this forum and Its about time I offered some deeper insights in here

Its a fucking hobby! I should be a mod!