poll: Should Tori allow taping?

lahlea · 06-29-2001, 02:44 PM

most bands don't allow taping of their shows, which, in my opinion, limits their possibilities of increasing their popularity and fan base, especially people who put on great live shows.

Phish is not one of these bands.. they have always allowed taping, and have stayed alive and very popular almost solely because of hundreds of copies of live shows floating around. They don't need to put videos on MTV, or have their songs played on the radio.. they don't need shameless promotion and advertisement.. plus, their fans grow closer to each other through trading friends and groups. Phish even offers tickets specifically for people who want to tape by giving them seats at the sound booth so they can hook up and get top quality recordings.

I love Tori's live shows, but I only have a few of them, and some are bad quality or incomplete. Imagine how it would be if we could have copies of every single show.. every live variation of each song.. every improvisation, every STORY... it would be incredible, and I'm sure that a lot of people that never gave her albums a chance would catch on if they heard her live. I know that some of you don't want her to have more fans.. she has an almost underground presence, and it allows her to play in small and intimate places sometimes.. but don't you think that if her success increased she'd be more likely to keep on making music in the future? I know she will anyway, I'm not afraid of this at all... but it would be nice to just make sure..

what do you guys think of this idea? and if we all agreed that taping would benefit tori, do you think we could ever convince her to let it happen?

Nick Raafe · 06-29-2001, 03:38 PM

Tori's main complaints against bootleggers have always been that the sound quality of the bootleg recordings was terrible and (tied into that problem), her fans were getting ripped off by paying lots of money for copies of these bootlegs.

Now she has almost painted herself into a corner because (a) there are more high-technology recording tools that can be used to produce better-quality bootlegs and (b) the "industry" of selling bootleg live CDs seems to have nearly disappeared in the wake of Napster and people burning copies for people, charging them only the price of a CD-R.

However, another big problem is that Tori has always been insecure about her live performances. In one interview, she claimed that on a scale of 1-4 (1 being bad, 4 being excellent), most of her vocal performances on the Plugged Tour were 1's. That obviously tells us that if she thinks she sounds like shit, she doesn't want people hearing it and being able to replay it 14,000 times.

And after the Venus. Live, Still Orbiting. fiasco with fans scoffing at her tracklist, that certainly didn't calm down folks who were pissed off that after waiting seven years for a live album, they got a little one-disc affair that was overshadowed by the new material on disc one.

My point is... the bootlegging is inevitable. And I think she has no choice but to become comfortable with it nowadays.

*nick*

The NYBG · 06-29-2001, 04:15 PM

I've always thought that Tori should allow taping. That applies to any artist like her who changes their setlist every night. Most artists play the same set every night on a tour so, if you have one audience recording, that's all you really need. Besides audio, some bands in the past like Metallica, Queensryche, Motley Crue, and The Black Crowes have also allowed video taping. MC and TBC allowed audio and/or video from ANY seat in the venue. That to me is preferable. With tapers section tickets, you usually have to get them at the box office only so it's a bit of a pain. Personally, i've never understood why any artist does NOT allow taping. It's a proven fact with artists that allow it that it significantly cuts down on sales of audience recordings. Generally artists and management get pissy with sales of boots as opposed to non-profit trading. Allowing taping results in 10,000% more recordings from a tour. The more that are out there from multiple people from the same show, the more easily available the free audience recording is. If only 1 person tapes a show when taping isn't allowed (which happens all the time), the demand is high for that recording and they can dictate "terms" of what they want for it. If an artist is very anti-taping and tries to stop it at shows by a tougher search and more security looking for tapers at the show, it does not work. The determined taper can get into any venue and tape any show he wants. I personally also like the Pearl Jam way of doing things now....releasing 2 cd soundboard sets of every show on the tour. I feel so strongly about my opinion on all this being correct that if Tori and her "people" continue to not allow taping, they are just burying their heads in the sand and being naive about the whole issue. The bottom line is that allowing audio/video kills boot sales and makes fans even happier with availability of recordings. It's a win/win situation with NO downside.

The NYBG · 06-29-2001, 04:21 PM

lahlea,
I just put a link to this thread in the main forum. Hope you don't mind...i just thought it was an appropriate main forum topic as opposed to a trading and selling topic.

Whoops...i see that this link is already in the main forum and i can't delete my own thread for whatever reason.

PrinceFamiliar · 06-29-2001, 04:43 PM

I voted for #2, she should do what Pearl Jam did.

That was so cool it's beyond words.

Chris

miao0726 · 06-29-2001, 05:52 PM

i posted this in the other thread where i did not see you guys said exactly what i did but here it is any way...
yes, and here is my reasoning, it does not hurt her it only helps the fans. many artists such as the black crowes have been allowing taping for years and you do not see a decline in their sales at all. u2 this otur allowed taping and they sure as hell are not having a problem selling tickets or cds. they advertise on napster about it for that matter. at msg i actually asked the security, he was an older man and very nice and he said they were told to allow it as long as it was not becoming a disturbance to the other people there. ex. blocking views. look at phish, they strive on fans taping and collecting, it makes the fans get more and more into it, i think its awesome. while not a fan of the music i highly respect them for that.

but tori will not let it happen. her and her people are too money hungry thinking like metallica. oh no if someone buys that i may not make the 25 cents off that possible album sale. and like the NYBG said, its an ignorant way to think. if you have access to any of the music trade mags take a look, there are always articles saying that record sales went down, and how surveys say that d/ling and bootlegs helped sales. and if it was so bad how do artists liek phis who make most of their in pocket take home money off of concerts not record sales come out so good in the end allowing taping? everyone is too afraid of where that 25 cents is going.

and as for pearl jam, number one they were not the first to do that, frank zappa did it years ago with a boxed set called bang your boots, and the problem i have with the pearl jam cds and anyone who does that is, i want the shows i was at, or i want the shows where something special happened. and pearl jam may have released their boots, but they werent the ones i wanted, and it is impossible to officially release every show. so regardless they can never make me happy that way. and they didnt do that to be good guys making fans happy with live shows, they did that so no one else makes a buck off their ass, which is fine i dont blame them i would too.

lahlea · 06-30-2001, 12:27 AM

i don't think it's fair to say that tori definitely won't let it happen. when was the last time she's even talked about it? we have good opinions on this and if we suggested it to her somehow, maybe she'll change her mind. she's not a slave to the record companies.. she can do what she wants, and if she's convinced by our arguments that copies of live shows are a good idea, she can make it happen. does someone want to write a letter?

SpacePerson · 06-30-2001, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by miao0726

and as for pearl jam, number one they were not the first to do that, frank zappa did it years ago with a boxed set called bang your boots, and the problem i have with the pearl jam cds and anyone who does that is, i want the shows i was at, or i want the shows where something special happened. and pearl jam may have released their boots, but they werent the ones i wanted, and it is impossible to officially release every show. so regardless they can never make me happy that way. and they didnt do that to be good guys making fans happy with live shows, they did that so no one else makes a buck off their ass, which is fine i dont blame them i would too.

pearl jam undisputably, was the first to release EVERY show on any particular tour.
someone point me to information if i'm wrong, but i believe that every show off of that tour was released.

eef

miao0726 · 06-30-2001, 04:11 PM

i was not talking about one particular tour, beats me if they released every show of that tour that has nothing to do with what i said, the point was, which obviously you missed, they can not release every show they did, as in every show they every preformed at. as in all tours not just one. and i would want the shows i was at that may be from previous tours. and their idea behind releaseing bootlegs, was what i said was not an original idea. frank zappa took all the bootlegs he could find, remastered them and released them.

JWpianoboe · 07-13-2001, 05:00 PM

I think it would be nice if she did allow it. But she doesn't have to. They're her shows. In any case, it still happens.

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Justin